Huerfano County, Colorado
Oral Interviews
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Mrs. Munzer Capparos

Scanned by Dick Chenault
Edited by Phyllis Miranda
Interviewed Rosalyn McCaim
Date of interview - 1-22-1980

RM: This is Rosalyn McCain and I am in Mrs. Capparos's home and this is January 22, 1980. My first question is: What year you and your family came to Walsenburg?

MC: I came to Walsenburg in 1909, but my father had been here. He had come in 1900, 1898, or something.

RM: Is that right? And what was his name?

MC: Salun Saliba. And I came later, afterwards with my mother. I was in school back there. The school I went to taught Arabic and Russian.

RM: Where were you born?

MC: I was born in Btgreen, Lebanon. That's the state Lebanon.

RM: How do you spell the name of the town?

MC: B-t-g-r-e-e-n, Lebanon. I was there in school until I was, I think, 13 years old. In the Russian schoo1 it was interesting to go there because they teach you a lot of handwork. And I had learned lot of handwork, some of it took a long time before they were doing it here. Then the people there made their living out of the silk worms. Because they used to make silk. And after the nylon and rayon came around, they had to give that up. And they fed the worms out of mulberry leaves. They would have to be cut very fine. When they were young they looked like little seeds. And we did that. That's what was their living. They made their living out of that. After that they planted the fruit trees. They took all of the mulberry trees and planted the fruit trees.

RM: And when did that happen?

MC: Let's see. Must be in1919. I guess that's when or maybe earlier before that, they quit that. I don't know exactly, but somewhere around there.

RM: So was that what your family had done to make their living in Lebanon?

MC: Oh, all Lebanon. My father used to go and work in different places. He used to make the charcoal. They would cut the wood and burn it, green or something. I don't know what it was. Make powder, and he would take men to work with him, in summer and winter. And he had money to come up to this country. And we were well provided for. He came to this country and was here two or three years, I think it was. He went back and build us a better home, made out of rock and iron and things like that. Then when I came here I went to school, Oh, I guess it was Washington School. But first I worked with my father for a long time after I came. When I came he had already store, but before he peddled and sold merchandise and things to make money.

RM: Now, how did he decide to come to Walsenburg?

MC: I don't know. He was coming to Colorado. Because they said Colorado and California, they looked like Lebanon, the mountains and all that. And so he thought he would come here. And he settled in Walsenburg when he first came and he used to go to the coal mines to sell merchandise.

RM: So he never mined, but he sold things...

MC: No, but he did go. Now I have several of the women that my father used to deliver their groceries. They are pretty old and they tell about how the kids used to wait for him, come payday, because payday he'd take them a sack of candy and sometimes, maybe after two or three paydays, a woman could pick up material. From the store, whatever she wanted. Give her two or three yards or material to make a dress. And there are still two or three ladies here in Walsenburg that reminds me of that all the time.

RM: Is that right?

MC: Yes, the reason they remind me of it, how different things are now. How it changed. They said now you don't get a string of thread free and they remind me of that all the time. When I was in Russian schools they taught us... I want to show you that, how to work with the silkworm cocoons. They showed embroidery and needlework and different things like that……...

RM: This is just beautiful. You describe what this is to me.

MC: Wait till I sit down. Hold it. From the silk worm cocoons you would cut the cocoons and take the dead worm, you know, it was dry already, out, and then we would cut it and cut the shape of a leaf. A rose leaf or a carnation, or any kind of flower and then I sewed it on that velvet with gold thread. And there is roses, carnations, little daisies, and this is here, pinks bells, or whatever you call them. And there's the leaves, wheat leaves and little buds there. And that bold was made of gold threads. It is not ordinary thread that you put the needle through. It is just like little spaghetti. You have to cut it, the size that you want to put it on the velvet, so that it won't wrinkle.

RM: Oh, that is just beautiful. Wonderful work.

MC: These are all roses. See how the leaves are cut to form in the center. And all around here. Then another kind.

RM: With a picture of your brother in the middle.

MC: Yes, that is my brother. Now I made another one. Then they showed us another work. It's on velvet. You have to have it on frames, like this. And you work it with a thread. And the thread is waxed cotton thread. And you work it, the design that you have, leaves, roses, carnations, anything. You work that first with cotton. You wax it. It comes up about an eighth of an inch high. Then I cover it with silk floss. I have one made and it is on the order of this, with roses and leaves but it is not here. It is at my sister-in-law's. And that's a beautiful thing, too.

MC: So when I came back, my sister took me to school. I had my sister, older than I am, that lived here. Mrs. Faris. I don't know if you know Jeanette Thach. Her mother is my sister. She took me to school and she told the professor that I had gone through school that would be higher grades than what they had there but they want me to learn the language. But I had learned English. My first husband, he taught English. He was a graduate of the American college in Beirut. So he taught in Btgreen and when I knew I was coming I took lessons from him. So it wasn't hard for me to come here.

RM: What was his name?

MC: Murr. He would be Floyd's father. That's why.... Floyd Murr and I am his mother and people can't understand.

RM: I see. So he taught at the university there.

MC: No, he graduated from the university. But he taught in a small town, in our town. The little town. But he taught English, American classes. And I took from him. And then when we were coming to this country he came, too, and went to Utah or someplace and we corresponded and then we got married. And my son Floyd was born.

RM: I see. So he was born here?

MC: Yes. So she told the…, that's what we were interested in more was learning the language, to be able to talk to the kids. So one day I was in school. You know, I was there and they used to put them fourth and sixth, or fifth and seventh, in classes because that's all they had. So the teacher put the program for fourth and sixth, I think, so I made the sixth in arithmetic. And she said, “That isn't yours. You do this. So I didn't know anything. I said, “I made this. I don't know which is mine and which is theirs.” So one day we came to spelling and they asked me how to spell “overall'. I had never seen overall and never saw what overall is and I said, “What is overall? I don't know what that is.” And the kids laughed at me. So Mrs. Needham was my teacher and she told them, she said, “You shouldn't do that, because if you had gone to country, you wouldn't be able to speak one word. Listen to her and look at the program she has been doing.” Since then they were all nice to me. All want to be my friends. And my father had the store and they would come down and I would give them crackers, and candy, you know, and we became very good friends. All of them.

RM: So how old were you again when you came to this country?

MC: 13 years old. Yes, I worked at my father's store. He had a big general merchandise and we used to wholesale and retail flour. We used to buy flour by the carload from Denver, contract sometimes three or four carloads and we'd get one at a time. As the price went up we were protected. And we used to have the big trade with the miners, coal mines, and farmers. We lost lot of money. We lost lot of money after the farmers quit, you know. They had lost everything themselves and so did he because he carried them for a long time.

RM: People would just pay their bills to you once or twice a year.

MC: Yeah. That's it. And then they couldn't sell the sheep and they couldn't sell the wool. And for two or three years it happened. And my father, he used to come…the man would come to buy some more and his bill was thousands of dollars. And I tell papa, “Don't give them anymore. That's enough.” I said, “What they've got is not worth that much.” They've got children, and the children's got to eat. He was that kind, that good, you know. So that's what it was. I don't know what else to tell you.

RM: So, you went through...what grade did you go through in school here?

MC: Here. I started with third grade.

RM: And how far did you go?

MC: I didn't go any further than 6th grade, 7th grade. I didn't graduate. I had to go back to work. I worked for my father. Yeah, the second year I got here I took over the books, because they taught us arithmetic there and things like that. Further than here. And I took care of the books. The buying and the paying. He did a lot of the buying, but the paying and the collecting and all that, I took care of all that myself. I worked for many years. I don't know how many years I worked there. Till he sold out. Till he might as well…almost went broke. I mean, he didn't go broke, but with what he lost with the people so much.

RM: When did you get married? How old were you when you got married?

MC: I got married, to Mr. Capparos in 1925.

RM: But you married Mr. Murr before that? And how old were you when you married him?

MC: Well, we lived together, I think two years. He died.

RM: So you corresponded between each other and then he came here and then you got married?

MC: Yeah, that's right.

RM: At that time were you working for your father then?

MC: Yeah, when he came here I was working for my father because he didn't stay here. He went somewhere else, Wyoming or somewhere.

RM: What kind of work did your husband do?

MC: Mr. Capparos he was in the mining. He worked in the mines here.

RM: And Mr. Murr, what did he do?

MC: He taught.

RM: He was a school teacher here also?

MC: He taught in Wyoming. I don't know what school. And I think he was going to teach in Trinidad and then he got sick and couldn't teach.

RM: So after he died, you supported yourself?

MC: No, I was with my father.

RM: So you kept working with your father.

MC: Yeah. The time I got here, my father was here already in business, like I told you. And I came there. You know it is funny. When I come from the country, my grandmother she had other sons in this country, too. And she always said California instead of saying Colorado. So after Pueblo I told this man and he told me, well “You'll soon be home in Colorado, Walsenburg, Colorado.” and I said, “But I am not going to Colorado. I am going to California.” So we got down here and the D and RC was an old shack place, the depot, and there was a lot of small shacks around there, the old timers. When I looked outside I said, “No, I can't get off here. My father don't live here. I don't want to get off here, my father don't live here.” But there was a boy that worked there. He knew my father and knew my brother, too, and he says, “Yes Miss Munzer,”... they told him my name was Munzer...“Munzer, this is where your father lives, but not here, way down there,” he said. They sure laughed at me. They sure made a joke out of this.

RM: So how many brothers or sisters do you have?

MC: I had two brothers. One of them died. This picture is of him. And I have a brother Dr. Saliba in Denver. That's all. And we were four sisters.

RM: So the whole family came over?

MC: No, I have one sister in the old country. She was here about ten years ago. She stayed with me about eleven months.

RM: Oh, how wonderful. And then she went back home to Lebanon?

MC: Yeah, and she's there now. I just got a card from her Christmas. But I guess they have been going through terrible times there.

RM: Have you ever been back?

MC: No. Well, before my husband died we wanted to go back. He was a Greek. And we thought we would go back to Greece and to Lebanon. We had saved money so that we could go. Then he got sick and we couldn't go. Then he died. He didn't live very long after that.

RM: Now, when did he come to this country, Mr. Capparos?

MC: From Palo, Greece.

RM: And what year was that?

MC: I don't know what year he came.

RM: But he worked in the mines?

MC: Yeah. He worked in the mines, at Walsen mine. When we met his father owned the building where I have my variety store. The people went broke that were in it and they didn't pay the taxes on the building, so we couldn't open the store unless we paid the taxes. So we paid the taxes, which was $375. But there was nothing in the store hardly at all. A few dishes and few papers and things like that. So my brother and my father decided why don't I take it over and open a variety store. So we remodeled it. It was just a little hole then. I remodeled all that in 1929, when everybody was going broke. And I didn't have any saved or anything but I kept the store open. And while the men was working, every week we would pay for what ever they were doing. But everybody thought I was nuts, But I guess I didn't know any better or anything. I was daring. And we didn't have to borrow a dime. We got it all paid before we got it all finished with the shelves and restocking. So then we had…we were going to go in with some chain store, but we didn't like their deal, so we didn't.

RM: So you've been independent.

MC: Independent. All this time. And we are still there.

RM: That's right. Have the things that you stock in the store changed much?

MC: Oh, a lot. The prices…

RM: What did you carry at the beginning?

MC: Oh, I carried the same things, only I added more. I didn't have clothing first, no children's clothes. But we carried other lines, like lot of plastic and kitchenware, which now I don't carry very much of that. But don't talk about prices. People don't believe. Used to be, when my father had the flour, we used to get it by the carload. When the farmer or anybody, if they bought 20 sacks of flour....because everybody made their bread, we would give them a set of dishes, service for twelve, of that pinks willow. Beautiful set of dishes. But very few made it, unless they would get together, maybe father and son, like that. But imagine. You can't buy that for five, six hundred now. But the change is...when I see all these prices I say, “Gee how did we sell that stuff for so little?” We used to give a book of needles, you have seen them probably, they would have needles and pins and all kinds of things in them, for 15¢. Now do you know how much is packs of needles? Fifty and forty cents and there's only ten needles or twelve needles in it. I can...sometimes it's unbelievable how things have gone up.

RM: And just in the space of a year or two, things go up again.

MC: Well, right now we order something, maybe we get it this month. We order some next month or maybe next week, we get different prices. They have already written and told us they raise their prices on account of this and that and that. Everything has gone up, but...that's just the way it is. You can't say it went up 100%. It's more 800% or something. The things from those days. I was telling you about the flour. We used to sell sack flour for $2.25, hundred pounds, or $2.00. Yeah, I remember selling flour for $2.25 a sack, a hundred pounds. It's $2.25 for ten pounds. I don't know how people are managing. Well, the wages are high. I have had a lot of people tell me, you know, we made a lot less... those old one's that I have known...and you know, we lived better, we had more money and we didn't have to worry about anything. Now, we make four or five times what we made then and we don't have enough, because everything else is high. Those strikes, you know, they are raising up money and all this. Raising wages and all that. Naturally things are high. They have to have higher wages.

RM: That's right. Was your husband working during the strike? Was he here during the different strikes?

MC: Yeah. He was here during the strikes. Yes.

RM: I think I have heard that there was a large number of Greek people that was here mining in the early days, but you don't meet hardly any Greek people in Walsenburg, now.

MC: No, we used to have quite a few families here. One thing, they had a good bakery. Oh, the best of bread and things like that. And they all...some of them died, some of them moved away. I have a woman in Santa Fe, she still writes to me, Christmas cards. She lost her son in the war. The war was over and he was in an airplane with a ship that flies airplanes, and his airplane caught fire over the sea and he was killed. He was Floyd's friend. He was the most handsome looking boy you ever saw. She has a daughter with her there.

RM: So what are some the businesses that have changed in Walsenburg? What businesses used to be here that aren't here anymore?

MC: There are business places in their place, though. Like Gamble is where Katz used to be

RM: Uh-huh. And what was Katz? Was that a hardware store?

MC: No, clothing. Now like J.C. Penny was on the corner where Ben Franklin is, and they moved away. There was a restaurant. Beauty shop. There is still a beauty shop there now, and a hair dresser. And different things like that.

RM: Now, were there other dry goods stores? Your father had a dry goods store didn't he?

MC: Yeah. General merchandise.

RM: And what was the name of his store?

MC: Saliba's General Merchandise.

RM: And were there others? Other general merchandise stores?

MC: Yeah, there were a lot of other general merchandise stores, but my father's was the biggest because he wholesaled, too, and retailed, and we had everything. Shoes, clothes...we used to have to order men's underwear, boy's underwear. And they had fleece lined, the heavy. And that's because it used to be so cold, see, lot of snow. We would have to order the fleece lined, the lightweight with short sleeves, the lightweight and heavyweight with long sleeves and all. We used to buy by 15 dozens to the case. Well, one time a salesman from a big company used to call on us and we used to buy everything from him. He came to see my father and my father was on the wagon delivering, and he couldn't see him. My father wouldn't come until about 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock at night. And he waited a couple of days, you know. Of course, the hotel rent was cheap. He stayed over. So finally he saw my father and my father told him, “I can't go to sample room. I am tired. I got to go to sleep. I have to get up in the morning. She buy. Let her buy. She can buy anything.” So I went over there and I bought $1,500 worth, which is a lot, $1,500 then. And this fellow didn't know whether to ship them or not. I said, “You ship them.” And I said, “S. Saliba's name. You know whether we can pay for them or not. My father told you for me to buy everything.” Well, he wouldn't believe it. He had to come back and ask my father. My father told him, “You go buy another thousand dollars worth.” That was a joke. But I did the buying then from there on. Of course, the flour and the grain and the corn and alfalfa and all that, we had a big place in the back outside of the store next to the alley. That's where we had the corn and alfalfa and all that. We used to store it there.

RM: Oh, you had everything.

MC: Yeah, we used to buy tomatoes by the hundred cases. We had big business. That's why I say, he lost a lot of money. 0h, yeah, he used to buy tomatoes. The company used to be J.S. Brown. And we used to buy hundred cases of corn, hundred of tomatoes, and this and that. Our basement. We had a big warehouse. Have you been in my store? Well, we had a warehouse as long as my store, maybe wider. The flour...sacks of flour...would be stacked up as high as they could reach. And the corn and all that stuff. During the strikes a lot of people came down because the strike was up on 7th Street. There was a lot of shooting and killing. And a lot of our customers would come downtown and my father would have them in there, and my mother was there then...would have a table in the middle of that warehouse and would serve them coffee and crackers, things like that, I will never forget that. They had some time during the strike. They was killing. Militia came down.

RM: I will turn this over.

RM: So you were here during the 1913 Strike, weren't you? What are some of the things you remember from that time?

MC: I remember the people were so scared nobody would go out, especially up on 7th Street. Well, you see, one boy was shot as he was coming out of his door. Yeah. Did you talk to people up on 7th Street? They told you about the strike, too, didn't they?

RM: Hard times for people, weren't they?

MC: So many people, Slavish and Italians.

RM: How about during the depression years? What do you remember, during the big depression?

MC: Well, there was the depression during 1932 and '33 and all that. That's when I told you my father would tell them to take it because the children's got to eat. “Papa, they owe you too much money. You can't give them anymore.” He was so kind, though. The children's got to eat. “They are not your children,” I said. But he was such a kind-hearted man and he helped a lot of people in different ways. Lent them money to buy something that they wanted to buy and things like that. But he worked hard for it. He peddled first before he opened the store. He used to peddle, go from nine to nine, wa1king, carrying the suitcases and all that. So people think they work hard now but years ago people worked hard, too. They worked harder. Now a lot of them can get a living. They don't have to touch anything. They don't want to work, even if there is work for them. I don't mean…there are a lot of people that work. I am not begrudging the people that needs it. The people that needs it, they deserve it and that's what it's for. But, you know, it is not going everywhere it should go. Everybody knows that. The government knows that. But there is no way you can stop it. I had a woman work for me for awhile. Now I guess she is on relief. She don't want to work. So I have to do my own work. I was trying to wash down the stairs. So, well, I don't have much to do, you know, I mean to wash. But lucky, everything washes now days. That time we used to have to iron everything.

RM: So what do you see were the differences between raising a family in the old days and raising a family now?

MC: Oh, my, I don't know. I didn't have a family to raise in the old country. But my mother used to say that what she spends on a boy or a girl here, you could raise three or four kids. Cause, there was no place to go, in a small town. They would all get together, this week at my house, next week at your house. And they would have coffee, something like that, and dancing. Of course, now they do. They are more modern than we are. Because one of my nephews, the sister that stayed with me. He came as a student. He graduated and he was such a good mechanic or something that they asked for him. He makes big money. He married an American and now he don't have to go back. He bought a home and he married a nice girl. And he was telling us, what do we do here? We don't do nothing. Unless you go to a dance or something. He was telling us that they have better time back there than we do here. He said we work too hard. My sister that stayed with me... You know I get up in the winter and go. Now is the time that I'm paying for it, I guess...I would be almost the first one going down in that snow. Course in the car. I have a car. And go to work in the morning at 8 o'clock and don't come home till 6 o'clock in the evening. My sister says, “You work too hard.” I said, “That's why I've got what I've got because I work for it. Nobody gave me anything. My father didn't give me anything.” I said, “I started it myself.” That's why you don't go to sleep and rest and loaf around and have what I have. I had to work for it awful hard. So did my husband. When he was living, he would go first and open and get the furnaces and open the boxes, or open merchandise and check it and all that. Now that falls all on me. But we have somebody to take care of the furnace now. But I am telling you these people...I told her, “Well, what do you do?” “Well, we don't have no place. Nothing to work. If we had work, we'd work.” “Well, you don't work, you don't get nothing. You work, you get what you work for.” But I can see the difference between the time when I come here and now. So much difference. The taxes and all that. Then at that time, when my father had the store, you didn't have to put up with all this social security, income tax, welfare…all that stuff, you know. And, of course, what you made, you kept it till this came on and he started to pay income tax and social security. Of course, we didn't have to pay social security because we were working ourselves on our own. But we paid it in income tax. But, yeah, there is a lot of difference between now and then. I guess everybody tells you the same thing. And the Italian people tell you they lived in the mines and had to wait from payday to payday.

RM: That's right.

MC: I know it. My father called on a lot of these people that you talked to. He used to sell them merchandise when they were in the mines. Yeah, I think they are all dead. Like I was telling the girl that works for me, Roseann, says, “Gee, we are losing so many customers.” I said, “What do you mean?” She says, “They are dying.” But that's the truth, too. Because I had so many customers that kept trading with me after my father closed the store. Because I opened in 1925. He closed the store in 1926. I had all these folks that used to buy from him, they'd buy from me the things they need that's in my line. And they kept on, too. They were very faithful, the older folks. And, of course, some of their children, too. The other day, we bad one of the best customers, an old lady, who buys a lot for her grandchildren. She had money I think or she gets this, what is it, black...

RM: Black lung?

MC: Black lung, too. But she had money before, and she buys a lot of things for her grandchildren and daughters and daughter-in-law. She used to buy about $40 a month or $50 worth a month. It's gone. She said, “I told you we are losing all our customers.” Yeah, a lot of them, the older folks that I knew, they died and the younger ones came in place of them. Yeah. We are doing all right. Do you live in Gardner? You do, you live in Gardner?

RM: Yes. Up on Pass Creek Road.

MC: You have your home there?

RM: Uh-huh

MC: Are you married?

RM: Yeah, and I have a little boy that's 16 months old, he's home with his dad now.

MC: Are you going back to Gardner, now?

RM: Oh, yes.

MC: Where did you call me from? RM: I called you from the store down here. See I had to see somebody at 5:30 and I called them and they said it would be better if I see them on Saturday when their sister was going to be here, so then I had some extra time and I thought, well, I would call and see if I could come over here.

RM: So, you just have one son, is that correct?

MC: Yes, but I have three grandchildren. One is studying law. And one is already a doctor. And the girl, her mother just took her to Boulder. It is her first year in Boulder. And I have a brother, a doctor in Denver, too. I have three grandchildren. That's all I have, just Floyd from my first husband. I didn't have any children f rom my second husband. But he was so good to him. I used to always say, “Gee, I wish we'd have another child.” He'd say, “We have one.” This would be his stepson, see. “If we can raise him right, that is enough and quit harping.” But it was me that didn't have anymore. But he was very good, good to Floyd. Give him anything he wanted. We sent him to college. Floyd went to Harvard. And Austin went to Dartmouth, the one that is studying law now. Mary is in Boulder now. Yeah, I am real proud of them.

RM: Do you have any great grandchildren?

MC: No, they are just out of college. And they don't want children right away. Both of them said they don't want children right away. Well, P.C. is a doctor and his wife works and makes just as much money. Yeah, she is a technician or something there at the hospital. And then Austin's wife works, too, for the college and she makes good money. And then he works, too, when he has time or a job. He works on and off all the time. That's how they are going to college. She's not, Austin's wife is not. But she is a good seamstress. She is a beautiful girl, too. Austin is a blonde. And P.C. is dark, fair, but with dark hair. The other one is Austin. Oh, I am very proud of them. They are nice kids. “Oh, Grandma, what can I do for you?” I am going to Denver and Austin and his wife can get off, the other ones can't, and they will meet me at the depot. At the bus depot. They are going to take me to the Mart. From there I will take them out to dinner and they take me up to my brother's. I will probably take them to lunch first and then before we go to my brother's, take them to dinner. Oh, they are nice kids. They are appreciative, too. If you do something for them they are very appreciative. They are not the kind, give me-give me. They to be independent themselves.

RM: That's wonderful. So did you ever want to go back to Lebanon?

MC: Not now, I wouldn't go for anything. When I was able to go I didn't so now I can't even go if I wanted. The country is not good.

MC: When we left Beirut, we had been gone a couple hours and fire started in the ship. So they kept on going without any dangers until we got to Athens. Not Athens, Pyreas. So they moved us to another ship, a Greek ship. I marveled at the places there. It looked like everything was just so clean. Everything. Most of the homes had that white marble, the streets, everywhere. The business place. And I hadn't seen anything like that. Those big buildings. And I thought that was just wonderful. And the water was so bad on the ship, so my husband, first husband, went to buy some water, to get us some water. And that is how we got off the ship. They wouldn't let us go anywhere because they are responsible for us, you know. But he asked the man and told him, “We can't drink this water. If we can get some water someplace, I'll be back. I'll be right back.” So they kept watch on him till he got back. But he went and got water. He was ornery enough that he kept on, “We can't drink this water. The food was very good, too, on the ship.

RM: It was a Greek ship?

MC: Yeah, they had to transfer us to a Greek ship. It was French that caught fire. It was a small one, too, it wasn't very big. And this big one we came on was coming from Greece. They had dancing and singing and all that and we used to sit down and watch them.

RM: And how many days were you on the ship?

MC: Oh, my goodness, I think it was thirty days. Well, you see, we had trouble all the time. Let's see, I don't think it was thirty, twenty six days. Well, the ships were not fast like they are now. They were so slow. They didn't have all this new machinery like they have, and gas and all that. They probably fed them wood or something.

RM: And then did you take the train? Did you land in New York?

MC: Yes, I landed in New York. And by the ways I had a big trunk full of everything, clothes and fancy work and even sweet stuff that my mother had and put them in tins, long tins and sealed. And I didn't know the people that were coming with me. They didn't say anything. I didn't go and exchange my ticket, get the on the trunk. I lost it. We never did get it. We wrote back and forth. We never did get it. Oh, it had beautiful. I will show you some of that.

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