Huerfano County, Colorado
Oral Interviews

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Agnes Mozar

Scanned by Dick Chenault
Edited by Zale Nagler, Sherry Cook, Dick Chenault, Sara Murphy
Date of Interview - 1-31-1980
Interviewed by Chip Baker

Agnes Mozar
Date of birth - 10-21-1915
Parents - Joseph Mozar and Martha Jasinski
Maternal grandparents - Rose Jaminski
Family origin - Northern Italy, Yogoslavia
Date of family arrival in county - 1929 County, 1909 Van Houghton, NM
Location of first family settlement - Aguilar - Tioga
Kinship ties - brother in Denver
Profession - Teacher

(Note: This interview was very mixed up so we posted it as per the numbering of the Tapes.)

CB: Oh, that's very nice; you know, I can pick your voice up with this little tiny microphone. It's gonna sound just like you and you won't even notice it. I apologize for disturbing you with this wire and stuff. I like the way you play. Maybe you could... Let's try a little bit here. I can talk and the microphone will hear me a little bit but mostly it will hear your voice. That's what we are going to go for.

AM: You want me to sing.

CB: Yeah. Sing a little something and let me record it for you.

AM: …

CB: So that I don't interrupt you, maybe just sing a verse for me, so that we can see how it sounds and we'll play it back. I want you to hear it.

AM: Down in the valley
Valley so low
Hang your head over
Hear the wind blow

Hear the wind blow, love,
Hear the wind blow
Hang your head over
Hear the wind blow.

If you don't love me
Love whom you please
Throw your arms round me
Give my heart ease.

Give my heart ease, love
Give my heart ease
Throw your arms round me
Give my heart ease.

CB: We were thinking of... if you have a favorite union song...

AM: Union huh

There once was a union maid
Who never was afraid
Oh the goons and ginks
And the company finks
And the deputy sheriff that made the raids.

She went to the union hall
When the meeting it was called
And when the company boys come round
She always stood her ground.

Oh, you can't fool me...
Oh, you can't scare me
You know that song...

CB: Yeah. Do you want to sing it and I'll play it for you?

AM: Yeah.
Oh, you can't serve me
I'm marchin' to the union

Oh, there once was a union maid
Who never was afraid
Of the goons and the ginks
And the company finks
And the deputy sheriffs that made the raids

She went to the union hall
When the meeting it was called
And when the company boys came round
She always stood her ground

Oh, you can't scare me
I'm stickin' to the union
I'm sticking to the union
Oh, you can't scare me
I'm sticking to the union
I'm sticking to the union
Till the day I die.

CB: Good. Oh, that's very nice.

AM: Oh, there's two more verses.

CB: Well, let's go.

AM: But I don't remember them.

CB: Oh, you don't remember them.

AM: About how she was wise to the company tricks. And… all that meant was in the end she says that if you marry a union man his best was to get a union wife and have union card and oh,...

CB: A real union...

AM: You know my dad was a powerful union man. He was in the Ludlow Massacre. He helped to build those tents. There was a lot of them put up there where Ludlow is, you know. And he was single, he wasn't married at that time.

CB: Who was this.

AM: That was my dad. He was about 26, 27, because he got married about a year later. He was about 29 when he got married. That happened in 1914. April, I think it was the 20th, 1914. And he got married the next year in January 9, 1915, and I was born in October. So see when he came from the old country he settled in New Mexico first because he had a brother there. And his brother came first. And he went to New Mexico. He never did come to Colorado. He did for awhile.

CB: How old was he when lie came over?

AM: My dad? He was just about 19 a 20 year old boy. He was just a young boy. And his brother came first. An older brother. And he started working in the mine, in the Norton, Northern New Mexico, past Raton down there. And he made enough money, he sent the money home for my brother and another brother, Nick, to come to this country. So they came to this country and he showed them how to work in the mine and he got them started. But my dad wasn't the settling type. He wouldn't stay and he came to Colorado. He went to Trinidad. And the other brother stayed there till he died. But the other one was going to go back to the old country but he died. And this other one died after they had that flu epidemic, of 1919. But anyway, my dad wouldn't settle, and so when he wouldn't settle, he come to Colorado and then he found a girl he wanted to marry and so he got married, But before that happened he was in that strike, in that union.

CB: Was he involved in the Ludlow Strike?

AM: He helped to build those tents. He was single yet.

CB: But he was there when the massacre occurred?

AM: Yeah. He said that they… those that could ran away, they all ran away in the hills. Hundreds of them ran away in the hills and some went to some rancher's houses. And those that couldn't get away, like this poor woman that's her monument, that made that monument, she's holding that baby. They couldn't get away and they were burnt in that cellar.

CB: Yeah...

AM: There was a cellar under there. That's where that monument... My dad said that was made from Indiana. I forget how many thousand dollars he said. I can't remember. But he said it was made and shipped from Indiana and they put that monument. My dad went there every April. Now that have it, they wait till they go till June. But they used to go in April. My dad never missed one day and they used to go and they used to lay a wreath on that monument. And my dad says... “You know there as a lady called Mother Jones” You've heard of Mother Jones. She was in that. She was a strong... I don't know if she was a widow

CB: __ she was, but she was powerful. AM:

Outspoken for the union, you know, and my dad says during that time when they sent that militia down there, the general was riding up and down Main Street with a rifle on his shoulder, and riding ahead of his men and the men were marching in back. They were marching through the streets of Trinidad from East Main Street to West Main, you know, along that street, back and forth, and this Mother Jones ran straight up to him and she grabbed that general by the 1egs, and just jerked him off, right off the horse. My dad... I never did forget, my dad told me that. He saw that. With his own eyes. He told me that. And she knew my dad, because, see, my dad was loud and talking all the time, so she knew my dad, and he said she came and patted him and she kissed him and she said, “You're my boy” she said, to my dad. And my dad never got over that. He thought that was just wonderful, that Mother Jones gave him a kiss. He said she was a little short, elderly woman, but she was…

CB: Yeah, I've seen a photograph...

AM: Yes, but she was very powerful during her...

CB: Very strong

AM: In her actions, in her nature. She must have been a strong little woman. Boy… But when he told me, you know, when he told me, you know, when a woman can grab a man like that and pull him off of the horse like that. She really got him off of that horse.

CB: Must have scared him pretty bad.

AM: Oh, yes. He told that one.

CB: Do you know if they sang a lot of songs then? I've spent some time around folks that were in the union and in those times. I know songs were really important to them. We didn't have radio then, and we didn't have TV.

AM: No, we didn't have any of those. But my dad, he never sang. He didn't sing.

CB: He didn't? How did you learn those songs?

AM: Me and my brother, we were interested in music. We were in high school already. We were looking through the Montgomery Ward catalog. We always looked to the instruments. The pianos and everything they advertised. So my brother says, “Let's get a guitar. Let's get one of those cheap guitars, beginners ones. “They come with instruction books.” I says, “Ok.” “You put in some and I'll put some and we'll order from Montgomery Ward.”

CB: Uh-huh. Did you get one?

AM: No, we ordered one, and it came through the mail, you know, because when you lived out in the coal camps we didn't have a store like that in Walsenburg, we didn't go to Walsenburg much. My dad didn't have a car and my brother and I were still in school so we didn't have a car so we ordered most of the stuff from Montgomery Ward catalog and we ordered this guitar and it came in good condition. So we started playing those chords. So my brother learned his way and I learned my way. We both used the same guitar and little by little we got... I went and got myself one and I said, “You can have this one here.” Then, don't know what he ever did with that cheap guitar, but he's got a “Harmony.”

CB: Oh, yeah.

AM: He's got a harmony and mine is just a cheap guitar that I picked up on the border, because I figured I'd bang it too much and if I buy a good guitar I'd just ruin it.

CB: Do you still play? I can tell that you play occasionally... but...

AM: Yeah, I play. I don't... I figured I was going to take my pick in case these people come by I wouldn't be forgetful where I misplaced it. So I put that pick in my pocket. This one's kind of wore out but I got some more. Then there's those that you put in your fingers. I have some of those but I never did learn them. But I can't play without a pick.

AM: I like the little brown jug if I can remember it.
My dad and I
Lived all alone
In a little log cabin...

I don't know what key it's played in. I play it in high C, but I don't sing that one very good.
I always get mixed up on those keys.

CB: Um, huh... What is that one?

AM: Red River Valley.

CB: Red River Valley.

AM: Remember that?

CB: Um, huh.
To the valley they say you are going
I will miss your bright eyes and sweet smile

AM: Oh they say you are taking the sunshine (Indecipherable) I used to play Waitin for a Train. How does that go?

CB: Oh, don't know...

AM: A Jimmy Rogers song. Oh, my brother is crazy about Jimmy Rogers songs. I have four songbooks. All the work that Jimmy Rogers had written.

CB: He is a favorite of mine.

AM: Oh—huh. And I gave them all to my brother because that is his favorite. And then he likes the Carter Family.

CB: Oh they were wonderful ones. Who is your brother?

AM: He lives in Denver. And he plays different than I do. We have a different technique.

CB: Uh-huh. Does he still play?

AM: Oh, yes. Waiting for a Train starts off...
All around the water tank
Waiting for a train.
A thousand miles away from home
Sleeping in the rain.

I walked up to a brakeman
To give him a line of..(?)
He said it, “If you've got money,
I'll see that you don't walk?

I haven't got a nickel, not a penny
Can I show
He said, 'If you...

No, I forgot the words to that. I wonder what key it is played in. I think the key of F.

All around the water tank
Waiting for a train
A thousand miles away from home
Sleeping in the rain.

I walked up to a brakeman
To ask him for...
To give him a line of talk is what it was..
To give him a line of talk
He said, “If you've got money, I'll see that you don't walk?

I haven't got a nickel
Not a penny can I show
He said, “Get off, you railroad bum”
And he slammed the boxcar door.

They put me off in Texas
A state I surely love
In the wide open spaces surround me
The moon and stars above
Nobody seams to want me
Or lend me a helping hand
I'm on my way from Frisco
Going back to Dixieland
My pocket book is empty
My heart is filled with pain
A thousand miles away from home
Just waiting for a train.

I don' t. know the right chords on that, and that's the trouble with that one. …Around Trinidad, and then afterwards, I was about one year old and my dad moved, I think around where Ludlow Valley is they called the place “Tolerburg” or Berwind Canyon. Berwind Canyon, that's where my brother was born, then we stayed there for awhile. Just like I said, my dad didn't settle. Then pretty soon we moved to Aguilar. And he found another job over there. He just worked from mine to mine. He knew every miner there was, I guess, and he worked in another mine...

CB: Were you around for the strike in 1923?

AM: Was that what they called the Wobblie Strike? They had something like that, because I remember we were in Aguilar in 1923 and we were in grade school yet and we were in about 7th or 8th grade already when he lost his job. He talked too much in the union and the bosses got hold of it. There were too many men, they called them scabs, you know, and they were always writing back, you didn't know when one was listening to you, and they would record everything, and so he lost his job and he had a good friend living out in Aguilar and that friend had a good friend living out in Huerfano County, so he went to talk to this friend and this friend says, “Well, I'll ask the super…” See, the super was a good friend to theirs and he used to go over to there and they used to make wine and drink and they got along fine with those people, the super and all of them, and my dad happened to… he put my dad on. He says, “Here, I'll give Joe a job,” He says, “Just tell him to keep his voice down a little bit.” So we didn't have a house or anything. There wasn't a vacant house in the camp. And mostly four room houses. So there was a big bunk house. I don't know if you know what a bunk house is. They have 10 rooms. They were small though. And every room had a door on the outside. So he says, “I'll give Joe a couple of rooms.” And of course, he put a little partition. I slept on one corner and my brother and Aggie slept on the other. See, we didn't have a mother. And in the back of the house there was, where they pile up all this lumber. The men used to use that in the mine to fix there roofs so they didn't get rock fall. And then in back of that was the mine. Right in back of that was the mine. So the super says, “Just as soon as we get a house some houses... We are going to have some brought in from Ideal or Ravenwood, someplace out there... “They had another camp. This was all CF&I operations. So they went and brought some three room houses in between and they gave us one right across the road where we were...

CB: Were they were little frame houses?

AM: Yes, they ware little frame houses. But they weren't cold once you had... we used coal, too, you know, and they had a little heating stove right in the middle room. Then the kitchen stove. We cooked with the coal stove and heated with coal stove. It was just all coal because we got out coal right from the camp. It was cheap. Seven, eight dollars a ton. And look what I paid the other day. It's 52 dollars a ton, this coal. Yeah, 50 dollars a ton and what is a ton? That ton is gone in a months time and then pretty soon I have to get all of these boys, they gave me a ride home yesterday, they says, “Just as soon as yon run out of that coal we will bring you another load,” says, you've got a little bit of arthritis in one of your knees...” I told them. And I need a warm house. So, we've got this here coal. 7, 8 dollars a ton. House rent was cheap, water was cheap. Everything was cheap, and you know the company... you know, they talk about CF&I, but you know they did pretty good in that camp there. We weren't forced to buy out of the company store like some of the other coal camps. We could buy... Lot of miners on weekend, on Saturdays, they would come to Walsenburg and buy enough for 2, 3 weeks and take it back up there. They didn't force us to buy nothing. Just those that wanted to, they could buy in the store. They kept up the camp nice, everybody had a trash barrel out in the alley clean. Every spring they come and fix your screen doors before the flies start flying around. They kept the camp nice. We didn't have no trouble. Of course, you know, the miners, they knew they had to... not too many were union people... they knew they had to keep their mouth shut because the company always had guards that were trained...

CB: The unions had organized in the camps in those days, is that right? Were the United Mine Workers in there, or...

AM: Well, the 1st few years it was pretty good, because my dad was president of his local union and they sent him as a delegate to conventions in Cleveland and Cincinnati. I've got all his medals that he got.

CB: When did they get in the union? Do you remember?

AM: Oh, well, you know, see New Mexico didn't have a union but Colorado, their union was born in Ludlow. That union was born right there. They were fighting for that. They wanted 7 hours of work only, instead go early in the morning and come out late at night. Like my dad said, he worked in a mine in Illinois, when he was out of work. He went back east, see, to visit his cousins in St. Louis. St. Louis is just across the Mississippi River from East St. Louis, Illinois. What is that county's name?

CB: Oh, I don't know. Do you know?

AM: No, but they have a lot of coal mines there. And he worked in here and he said that in the early days, when these miners came home from work, the children didn't know their daddy. See, they never saw their daddy. They d get up early in the morning and come home late at night and the kids are in bed when their papa comes home. He said, one day something happened in the mine and he was staying with this family... no, he was staying with the family next door and he says that... Well, my dad knows the miners. And the little boy ran out there and he was looking around and he saw that man in his yard and he didn't know that was his daddy. He run quick in the house and said, “Mama, mama, who's that man out there in our yard? And she said, “Why, honey that's your daddy? What do you think about that.

CB: Too long a day...

AM: That's what they were fighting for, shorter hours, bigger pay, and keep that mine fixed up so they didn't have to get hurt so many times. And they used to steal from their coal cars, about 500 or 600 pounds of coal out of each car, yeah, out of each car. I have the story... it's not complete. Just like a condensed form. And it tells you in it. And there was a man at that time at Ludlow and he must have had a camera and he took pictures of all those things and nobody knew anything about it when they had that funeral of those victims. And the mine workers Journal for 1949, I have that.

CB: I'd like to look at that.

AM: This man, he surrendered these pictures to Josephine Roach and she had them published in the United Mine Workers journal. It was the first time that was ever published and it shows the funeral, how it is. They didn't have no ambulance, hearses like they have. It was drawn by horses and they had a long, like a platform and all the caskets on it and the children had little white caskets and the big ones, they had little darker caskets, I guess they are grey. And it shows the men, dressed old fashioned. They got derby hats on and the horses are drawing that procession from the church.

CB: Are they buried in Ludlow? -

AM: I think they are buried in the Catholic cemetery there, because they went... it shows a picture of that Holy Trinity Catholic church and a picture of Catholic Cemetery. I think they are buried in Trinidad, alright.

CB: Yes, they...

AM: They were from Trinidad, most of them, and Agui1ar, Ludlow... And there is one Greek in there, also, he was guarding the men and woman.

CB: Louis Tikas.

AM: Yes, let's see, how did my dad pronounce it? He was a Greek, what was his name? It's in there. And it tells the name of that general, the one that Mother Jones pulled that... It don't mention her in there at all. I have a picture somewhere of Mother Jones. It was published in the Journal, but I can't find it. Cause I keep all those things.

CB: It is sure interesting that your dad was president of his local. Was that Ludlow local?

AM: No, Tioga. And he was elected to so many conventions, he was elected to so many of those conventions, and he used to go to these miner's conventions. He was a delegate.

CB: Was this in his later years? Did he mine, also, until he was an older man?

AM: Yeah, he retired when they made... that are... What do you call that?

CB: Well, you got me.

AM: That pension. Miner's pension. When they got the miner's pension then he quit.

CB: He stayed until the union got a pension for the miners? Do you remember what year that was?

AM: He got his pension in 1949 or 48. It was Christmas. In October he became of age; in October and he applied for it and then he got his pension and then we moved out in...

CB: Did he continue to work in the union after that?

AM: No, he completely retired. He didn't work anymore. Over 40 years from the beginning to the end. That's all he knew. He didn't want to learn anything else. Course when he was in Aguilar he had a little herb store, too, you know, but he would be there in the evening, just in the evening, and...

CB: He would sell healing herbs?

AM: Yeah, he used to always order them from this here Golden Era Herb Co.

CB: Where was that? Was that in New York, or from the Chinese?

AM: It was American Herbs. It was called Golden Era Herb Co, from Chicago. He used to... I think he did order these Spanish herbs. Because he had a lot of Spanish song books. He was supposed to give one of these song books to each of his customers. They were all old time Spanish songs. No music, just the words. So he was interested in herbs. He liked his herb business. That was one of his favorites, his herbs.

CB: I'm going to open the window just a minute and if you get chilled just tell me. How did he find out about how to cure people with herbs?

AM: They gave books. They gave books, and then it would tell, in the catalog, it would give a number and that number in the catalog corresponds to the number on the box and it would tell what it was for, if it was for rheumatism... And then he used to sell lotions, too, and candy for kids. He had kind of business in mind, too, you know.

CB: That's wonderful. So he assembled that on his own, so he was able to take care of his children and work. Is your brother older than you?

AM: He is 13 months younger. Very close.

CB: 13 months younger. Very close.

AM: Yeah, and we didn't live in Sopris very long so when we left Sopris we went to Berwind Canyon and my brother was born over there in Aguilar and I was three years old already and I stayed there till I was about 13, going on 14. Then after that was way up in, well, they call it the sticks, but I liked it.

CB: Where was this?

AM: Tioga.

CB: Tioga. Isn't that at the big curve in the road up there?

AM: Well, you see, this new pavement runs right straight, and we used to go winding through the hills. Because we used to ride on the school bus from the camp. You can still see that rock dump, miles before you get to Badito, you see a big rock dump. That's where they used to dump the slag. And there was a railroad going up that way and then the car would open up and all that would dump on one end and then it would come back down again. And the mine was right there and then on this side you can see the remains of the foundations of the boarding house.

CB: The ones where the trees are growing?

AM: Yeah. See there were some big trees growing on the outside but I guess the roots sprang inside. And I worked at that boarding house right after I graduated from high school. There was an old lady. She was kind of a cranky old lady and she was a good old lady and she kind of… made us girls really work. The two of us.

CB: Was this in the 20's?

AM: This was about, 19… It was close to election year when we voted for Roosevelt, because I know we used the schoolhouse to vote then. It was early. I was just about 19, 20 years old. See I finished, when I finished school, I went to work in that boarding house, she had boarders and she had a day shift and a night shift. She had three shifts coming and going out of the mines.

CB: Were they all working in the mines?

AM: Well, some of them were like teachers, and Woody Steiderhar, he was a cashier at the store. Then our doctor Stockdale, he moved into the camp and he stayed at a boarding house till one of the brick houses was empty. See the professional people didn't live in those coal camp houses where we lived, they lived in the brick houses and us kids we used to call them silk stocking avenue, because they were living in classy homes, brick houses, and they were modern and ours wasn't. We had these out houses. And some of thorn, them would lived in there, the married teachers, in this here boarding house. I worked in the kitchen and the pantry and preparing meals. We used to wait on the tables, to these borders.

CB: How many people worked in the mine? Just a guess...

AM: Oh, about a hundred men; but some of them lived in Walsenburg. They drove to work. They... some of them had homes here. They didn't live in the camps. If everybody lived in the camp they wouldn't have enough houses. They would have to make a village out or it instead of a coal camp. So these here houses, where we lived, they were further from the brick houses, they were further over this way... and then the store was further down in here. The store was right in the middle between the two camps. See, there was two camps. Old Tioga and was called Big Four and the story was... that man that had that wine that was good friends with this Steve from Aguilar, his wife told us that this is how that mine was founded. There was four big people. A big woman, I guess maybe heavy, three big men and one big woman found that mine and they called it big four. But the real name of that mine is Kebler mine No. 2. And the boarding house was Kebler hotel. And then we had the company store. The company store... we just had that one store. The post office was way in one end and the butcher shop was way on the other end. And on this isle... one isle would be all dry goods and clothing and shoes and then on this isle would be groceries. That was a meeting place for people and every two weeks it was pay day and they used to have two guards guard the payroll. One on one end, by the door if you come in and another one over there, closer to the post office, where the money was kept.

CB: What did... Did the people in the coal camps... What was the feeling toward the guards? Did the guards by this time… I know in 19l3 and 1914 there were open hostilities… by the time ...right now we are in the late twenties you are talking about...

AM: Yes, during the depression, the depression started in 1929. It was in the 1930's and that's when we had that dust bowl out there too. It was out in the open out there. That wind was blowing dust. You couldn't see for days and days, nothing but dust flying out in the air. But I don't know. People, they came and went, came and went. When we… after we were there, they did hire some more men, and they had men coming from different states. And my dad says that they loaded up some men in a box car from some of the other States and they dumped them in the stockyards, over there where the stockyard, where that track was...

CB: Where was that?

AM: ... and they brought them in case there was a strike.

CB: That was even in the '30's?

AM: That was in 1929, because we went up there about 1929 and we were in school about one month and saw some new kids in school and they were from different states and they had all talked a little different than we did and so... my dad said those people came in boxcars. They were shipped in boxcars. And nothing. The company gave them credit right away. The amount of groceries they want. And they didn't have any houses. They gave them rooms in two houses. In the bunkhouse. They had another bunkhouse at the other end of the camps. A red wooden building. A big long bunkhouse. And they just put them over there most of them, until they found houses for them. And then little by little when somebody moved out of this camp, they would get over to this other side. It was always shifting back and forth.

CB: By this time, though, most of the people belong to the United Mine Workers, though? Is that correct?

AM: Yes, they had to pay union dues.

CB: They had to pay union dues and they were getting a union wage?

AM: They were getting union wages and they got a union pension in the end. Today, look at how much they are getting? And my dad is in the ground. Do didn't go very much. He's the one that built it up. He built it. My dad built the union up. Boy…

CB: How many were in that union then? You said there were a hundred men?

AM: There were a hundred men...

CB: Did they all be1ong to the union?

AM: Not those that worked toe the company. What I mean, like the mine bosses, they didn't belong to no union. Those people didn't belong to the union.

CB: Just the miners...

AM: Yes, just those that worked underground, in the mine, yeah.

CB: I hope next time, maybe the next time you and 1 get together to talk, if think of it, if you can remember any of the songs... Since your dad was an organizer, I know in those days to get people to join the union, they had flyers and handed then out to the miners. Or was there some way... I know in the beginning it was very hostile, the bosses were hostile to the organizers, but as the organizers gained some influence and got some people behind them they weren't hostile anymore. I am curious, did they sing songs.

AM: I know this one song. Do you want to use the pick. It's better.

CB: Oh, yes, thanks. A miner's life is like a sailors
On a ship across the waves
Every day his life's in danger
Still he ventures, being brave.
Got to watch the rocks
They're falling daily
Careless miner's always fail
Keep your hand upon the dollar
And your eye upon the scale.
Union miners, stand together
And an operator's tale
Keep your hand upon the dollar
And your eye upon the scale.

AM: That's pretty. I don't know that. They used to publish poems.

CB: Oh, those. I'd be interested in seeing.

AM: Oh, I didn't keep those. I'm going to see if I got any of those left. But the one I kept was that Ludlow one. That meant more to me than anything, because my own father was in that. So, this other, I know there was poetry, but I didn't know you could sing them. I didn't know that.

CB: Well, if you have any newspapers or anything that you think would be of interest. Also photographs.

AM: Oh, I have a lot of pictures. I was going to show you, but she was in a hurry.

CB: Well, Elaine is allergic.

AM: I wish she would have told me. I would have them way back in the kitchen.

CB: You know if they are anywhere in the house, it makes her have trouble breathing. Like the presence of cats, like the hair… it is mostly the fact that their hair gets around on the floor and there's nothing anyone could do. But she can tell and it wakes her have trouble breathing. Maybe we can set together here.

AM: I will bring them here. I will bring the books here.

CB: I can help you do that.

AM: They are not that heavy.

CB: I would have been glad to do that today...

AM: I have a lot of books. And the medals that he has, he's got some beautiful medals from the union and all his certificates and everything. There is only two of us. But I felt I would keep them. My brother probably would lose then. When he moved away he lost alot of things. He wants all that stuff, but I won't give it to him. I figure when 1 pass away he can have it and then he can pass it on to his children if that's the way he want's it, but as long as I am living I am going to hang onto it, because he is kind of careless.

CB: What kind of work does he do?

AM: He works for some kind of people that haul this merchandise. What do you call them, those big trailer cars.

CB: Tractor trailers?

AM: Yes, they haul this merchandise to these big grocery stores. He says when they come in ha has to fix them and clean them up. He does the plumbing. In there, sort of like electrician and plumber. He has a brain compared to me, but...

CB: Please, you remember everything. It is exciting to talk to you. I have a special interest in the songs and the music from the mining camps.

AM: I like that union maid. If I could learn the two other verses. The one where it says, “She was wise to the company tricks.”

CB: I have learned that one. I would love to get you to sing that one to me. Did the people have dance in those days? Did they have dances?

AM: They had dances at the schools. The school was the center of the social activities. And that's where ... not every Saturday, but certain times of the year... they would give a dance and this here red building, that's tore out, you know, that red building, that was a brick building, it was really one room, but it had a big Partition between the two rooms, cause 7th and 8th graders were in one part and 5th and 6th graders were in the other part and they had a big partition. There was a folding door that they could slide it clear back and they used to make a big dance hall and they used to dance. But most of the miners, they used to go to these other coal camps. I used to always associate with people that were musicians so this here one family came into the camp and they had a big fat daughter and she was real musical. She played that piano like nobody's business. So she was in the orchestra. She got in the orchestra to play those dances. So she used to take me along with her. We went to Turner once and they were dancing and she played in Henry and Rebecca's band and one of them had a banjo in there. I said I never did handle a banjo. I'd like to lift this up and play it a little bit. Says, “Go ahead. Try it.” I thought that banjo was so heavy. I said, “I'm never going to play a banjo? I didn't like it, but she was very, so busy banging on that piano. I says, “I'd rather have a piano. Then we went to another place where they had a dance. We was all going somewhere. She was always taking me, because I liked to be with musicians. She got into an orchestra, because she was an expert piano player and…

CB: What was her name?

AM: Her name was Reba. And she was a big heavy woman, a big heavy girl. And real talented, too. But a good looking woman, you know. A good looking woman.

CB: How did they get the bands together to play for these...

AM: They ... somehow... everybody from one coal camp knew everybody else because they would meet in Walsenburg in a beer joint or go to other dances. My brother married a girl from another coal camp. He went to a dance at Turner and he met his wife in a dance hall in Turner, see, and that was another camp coming down this way, see, was Turner, that Big Turner. Had those beautiful white and yellow houses. He met his wife in that camp over there, see. They'd find out where there is going to be a dance. Jackson is a place where they used to have a lot of dances. Yeah, Jackson. It is that place... Little before you get to that rock dump you see all that rubbish and everything on that side of the road. That was Jackson. You see how it's destroyed.

CB: Which mine is that old metal building? You know the one I am talking about?

AM: Is that Calumet? The one that says Calumet?

CB: That's the one very near to the town. The silver building...

AM: You mean about a mile from here?

CB: Not that one. I was thinking of the one almost when you get to Tioga, on the North side of the road, there is a building that looks like a metal building and it has a large wheel in it.

AM: Isn't that Calumet? It says Calumet up there. I think Tom Koval took a picture of that once. We went out there exploring one day and he took a picture of that. I think it says Calumet Mine, doesn't it? That was what they called Little Turner. Then you go further up and it says Big Turner. Then there was Jackson, Sunnyside, Tioga. And then when you turn over this way was Butte Valley.

CB: Were the other mines along Yellowstone Road? Between Yellowstone... When you go to Badito, weren't there mines up in Yellowstone?

AM: Yeah, it goes up that way. And when you turned it was Butte Valley. That's Butte Valley. They called It. Alamo.

CB: Is that where you make the turn up there?

AM: Yeah, it goes up. You know where there was a water tank. It went up that way. And you could go up to Yellowstone that way. Yeah. There might have been some more mines, cause I have another friend, he stays up at the Klein Motel and he owned a mine called Black Beauty, but I don't know where that one was. There was I know that there was a store that they called Strawberry Mine and Black Beauty Mine.

Side 2 (tape 1)

Walsen camp at one time, and Cameron and some mines around Pryor and Ravenwood. Ideal, I think is what they called it. They had mines out that way. And they had mines in Los Animas County, too. Marley. Marley, that's all tore up. They had Marley. And Sopris belonged to CF&I. See where I was born… is close to Sopris Mine, and that post office that was there was the legal address but we lived in a place called Piedmont. It was just a little place. And they had a high school and they had everything. In them early days Trinidad had a street car running back and forth from Starkville to Trinidad and then to Sopris and back to Trinidad and then back to Sopris, back and forth all day. It was a bustling little city in the early days, Trinidad was. The street cars. You don't see them anymore. Yeah, they had that.

CB: There were so many different kinds of mines. Some were owned by corporations, and some were just wagon mine's and there were probably all in between where there would be a little bigger and a little bigger...

AM: Yeah.

CB: The conditions in the CF&I mines were probably... were they worse or better than the ones in the truck mines.

AM: Well, some of the men that worked in those mines, they didn't like it because they said it had too much water in and the roof was not high enough. Had a neighbor, he lived over there across the street before he passed away not too long ago, he was living and he said he was always walking with his back bent like this. And I said, how come you walk like that? And he said I worked in the mine so long and it was so low and he says that's how I got accustomed to walking. In the Aguilar Mine there my dad used to say there was so much so much water in the mine he used to wear rubber boots clear up to here to get in the mine to work. In the early days, you see what the miners were fighting for.

CB: Sure.

AM: For better working conditions. That's what it was for. Yeah. And when these people wanted this and were hollering for it what did this governor of Colorado do? Sent that militia down there. I betcha... So I don't need to look for him no further. I hear his voice two blocks away talking to somebody.

CB: You know he's on his way home.

AM: Yeah, he had a powerful voice. And my brother, his voice is way lower.

CB: You have your father's voice.

AM: Yeah, I have. They say a girl inherits from her dad.

CB: Is that right?

AM: Yeah. Did you take psychology at college?

CB: I'm afraid I didn't. I took one course in psychology and I went to sleep almost every day. I liked music. That's what I liked all the time.

AM: Yeah. The boy looks like the mother and the girl takes more from the father's side. I do think he took from his mother's side and I took from my dad's side because we are as different as the day and night.

CB: Your brother and you?

AM: Yeah, we are as different as day and night.

CB: My daughter, I think maybe she takes a little bit from me. She is learning to play the piano.

AM: Cause that's inherited. But you know, my brother plays by ear. And when he was about 9 or 10 years old my dad or somebody gave him a toy accordion for Christmas and... but it played. And he heard the girls singing Redwing and all those songs and first thing he was a playing that, it was just perfect. He picked it up.

CB: Is that right?

AM: He plays more by ear. 10 years old. But he 1earned a little bit from the notes. He liked to learn a little bit by the notes. He didn't know the tune of them so he had to learn some notes.

Agnes Mozar Tape 2 Side 1

AM: That's his naturalization papers. That's when he became a citizen. You know our name is misspelled so many times. Sometimes MAAR, sometimes MOZAR and my dad when be signed his name, he couldn't make an A and see that's where the confusion. And then sometimes MO and they used an S instead of a A.

CB: This is correct though, MOZAR?

AM: That is right there, see, my dad, couldn't make an A. Couldn't learn to make an A. He never went to school one day in his life. Believe that.

CB: He didn't?

AM: He never went one day. All his brothers went to school, but I guess he didn't care to go.

CB: He left. Well, did be work in the mines?

AM: No, they were born and raised on a farm.

CB: A farm.

AM: They were on a farm.

CB: They were from Tyrol, Italy?

AM: His mother was on the Slav side, but his father went over there to live, to live over there after he married his mother. They live on the Slavish side after.

CB: I don't want to disturb you here.

AM: It shows you where he was living. He was 29 years old when he became a citizen. Piedmont. That is a little, not a suburb, but a little place outside Sopris. There was an adobe house there and that's where I was born, in an adobe house. Two room adobe house.

CB: Uh—huh. Our daughter was born in a little adobe house.

AM: I was born in a little two room adobe house out there. When He got there, see, he was from Austria and he was living in Trinidad, in Las Animas County, and that shows when he got his citizenship papers. He was very proud when he became a citizen. His wife was 19 years old and he was 29. See he got married about 8-1/2 months after Ludlow and he knew his wife only one month when he married her. That's another movie star. What I want to show you is, the stamps he brought back when he bought a lot of “Old Taylor.” He said when he was in Cincinnati, you cross the river and go over to Kentucky. I don't know what town in Kentucky and then he bought a bottle of Old Taylor and then he went back to Cincinnati, Ohio with that Old Taylor and those are the taxes on their whiskey. Oh, I keep all kinds of things. This is another guy, he is not important.

CB: Is that a photograph of you I saw back there. I thought sure I saw your face.

AM: Yes, that's me.

CB: This is you?

AM: Yes, that's me. That's when I was teaching. See, that's the camp. This is another two room house that is three rooms away from me. And there is that garage where the miners kept their cars. See, it's got 10 on that side there.

CB: There is one of them there.

AM: That is me there. That is when I was going to Trinidad Jr. College as an adult. That is a kind of a card that belongs....for hospitals, I was entitled to go to the hospital through my dad. See it has my name on there. That is a picture that I painted and I took a picture of it. The end of the world. See the world how everything was in darkness. I took that before I got rid of the picture. I got so many things, I have to. . .Now this one there. That is the first aid, I think. See the miners had to take first aid. They were required...

CB: .... to know what to do.

AM: I think just about every year, over and over again. And my dad had lots of certificates. That is when he was at Aguilar and he had a little herb store and he wrote for information from Colorado State Board of Pharmacy, so he wouldn't make any mistakes about what he was doing. You know for advice I guess. That is the one to Cincinnati. His local union was 6611 Tioga, Colorado, August 4, 1944, this was the piece of paper that was made at that convention. United Workers of America, credentials to the convention. Of course, that is my brother's signature, and my dad's signature. My dad was a delegate to the state Democratic convention. He was in 100 things, just like I do. What do you call, jack of all trades, master of none. He was into things. He is called Joseph in here. These delegates were bringing democratic candidates to the ballot.

Now that's his marriage certificate. It shows you when he was married. He was living in Sopris at that time. That's where he met her. And that was in Las animas County. This is where they were married, on the 9th day of January.

CB: Was Sopris a mine?

AM: Yes, that was a CF&I camp down in Trinidad area. It was a beautiful camp. They had a high school. Like I said, in the early days Trinidad was a bustling city. It had a street car. It would go to Sopris, and bring the people from Sopris and come back to Trinidad and from Trinidad go again to Sopris. It was doing that all day long in the early days. But they took all the tracks and all that out.

CB: Better transportation than we have today.

AM: Yeah. Yeah. This is his passport. He came from Germany and was on the Bremen Line and this is the address and name of the street. I guess that's the man that was at the head of it, Kostler, and it shows where he left on the ship called Rhine, headed for Van Houghton, New Mexico, cause his brother was there and he sent him a ticket. That's where he first settled. See his name is spelled MAZAR right there. He is called Jose, just like in Spanish. But this here is supposed to be a J or either a Y and sometimes he was called, “Yoso” But anyway this shows you, he was supposed to land at New York. That was in 1906 he came to this country. This is when he, when he lost his job so many times, that was before he was married, ho was just young... he didn't last long in the mines in the early days, maybe a week in one place. He had a big mouth. You know when you are younger, you talk lots. He did. He went to St. Louis to see his cousin and on the other side of the Mississippi River is East St. Louis and this is the name of the County, Madison, either this one or Madison and there was coal mines there so he had this paper made out to work in the coal mines in Illinois. So he could see where all he was. He traveled a lot through Europe, too, before he came here. He left home. He said he was 37 years old when he left home. He had adventure in his mind.

CB: Yeah.

AM: He didn't want no school, see? The same like my brother. I was the one that wanted to keep going and going and going and going, but them two didn't. So when he left home, he never saw his home again. They he went to Hungary and worked for a while over there. I don't know what he was doing in Hungary. He learned how to pick up a few words up there. Then, from there he went to Germany and he stayed there one year and then that's where he set sail on the ship “Rhine” and came to this country. He landed in New York and then he came this way, right to Van Houghton. His cousin, Marco and Marco's sister came at the same time. See my brother had another brother too; there were three brothers. All three are buried together in Raton. He wanted to be buried in Raton because his brother was buried there, so I buried him down there. It was his wish. So, when they came this way, these here cousins, they came to visit here, but they didn't want to stay, so they went back to St. Louis so they went back to St. Louis because there was more factories. See, St. Louis is on the Mississippi and they had lots of factories and it is a big city. There was lots of work all the time. So they all settled down there, in St. Louis. That's him. Then he came back and went back to the mines.

CB: Do you ever see your relatives there?

AM: I have never met them but I went to see my mother's people in Cleveland. I want to go someday to see them but I don't know if I will ever make it or not.

AM: This is when he wrote for a record of all the time that he worked for CF&I. They had his name misspelled so many times so they told him there that in addition to the service record furnished at the date of August 6, 1946, we find that you worked at Primero during February, March and April, 1912, At Starkville in May and June 1922 and Tabasco from July until September 1913. After that he was without a job and after that he went to Aguilar and was working in those…well, not wagon mines. They were owned by other companies…There was the Delagua and the Royal mines and they were close to Aguilar. You go down the street. You go out that way, that's Delagua out there. He worked in some of those mines there. Then when he lost his job he went to Tioga.

AM: But he did…see, after the Ludlow was over, what he did, he helped them to put up this tent colony and those people in that tent colony lived there all winter! They lived there all winter but these tents were put up for families. They were mostly young people and they had small children and they lived in these tents and of course, there were a lot of bachelors. I guess they “bached” in surrounding areas with other families but they were all there helping each other and taking care of each other. When that was over he did go back to Sopris again and he worked and that's were he met my mother, see?

AM: Her and her Dad and Mother had just come from Cleveland. She was a Cleveland girl but they originally came from the old country from a place call Weckelkais, Germany. It was under the Kaiser. They were under the Kaiser. It is close to Danzig. It is right on the seacoast there and you could just go across and you are in the Scandinavian countries.

AM: So, he had just met her and he only knew her one month and he married her.

CB: He must have known it was right.

AM: Her Dad talked her into marrying him because the old man was anxious to marry his daughter off. They had two boys but they left them in the old country. She was the only girl, so they brought her. She was spoiled! She was her Dad's pet and she was spoiled! My Dad says that one day they got into a little argument and she got so mad she said “I am going to go home and get my Dad after you.” My Dad says, he told her at the time, he says, “You go ahead and bring him. I'm not scared of him!” So she did. Here she brought back her Dad to the house! He was a great big man compared to my Dad. My Dad was short; just a little taller then I am. But, my Dad was powerful. He could do a lot of hard work. But, this here Martin Bershinsky, he was a great big man and he come. So she brought that old man, her father, after he made the match and married them, see. He was even one of the witnesses, that old Martin. But when he saw my Dad, he realized that his daughter was to blame, too, because he knew her better than my Dad did. So my dad and his father-in-law never became enemies.

AM: So the father-in-law, he was a heavy prize fighter in the old country before he came here. He had his fortune made already when he came. His sister come first and settled in Cleveland and then he came and stayed over there and then they came out this way.

CB: Uh-huh. When did…this was the year that they met, 1914?

AM: They met around Thanksgiving Day, he told me. The met around Thanksgiving Day and they were married on January 9. That was 8 ½ months after Ludlow. I was born in October about 9 or 10 months later. Next, came my brother. When they left there they went to Berwind Canyon for a while and that's where my brother was born. They didn't stay there long, either. From there they went to Aguilar. That's how it was. And from Aguilar way up to the coal camps and stayed there for 9 ½ years and then back to town her and then to Walsen Camp for a while and then back to Trinidad for 15 years and then after my Dad passed away I come back here by myself. And I am here!

CB: Oh, I am glad you came back!

AM: Oh, what a life, ain't it?

CB: What is this one?

AM: That got mud splashed on it. I don't know how come we moved so many times. I have to clean them up. I think I am going to clean that up with milk or something. I want it nice and clean. But, I don't have time. It takes time to glue all those things and I have about a dozen. These are just ordinary scrapbooks and then I covered them with wrapping paper.

CB: You know what? I am going to have to go.

AM: We will have to cover this up next week.

CB: Let's take this one with the photographs and this one with photographs and let's keep everything else together, okay?

AM: I will take all the albums and bring them back, ok? And….

Agnes Mozar Tape 3 Side 1

AM: The householdings, we was made up of a large family. The father was the head of the hone and earned a living for himself and his family by working inside a coal mine. The mother took care of the home and the children. In the home of poor people the mother washed the clothes on a washboard. An automatic washer and dryer was unheard of in the very early days. She ironed the clothes with a flat iron that was heated on the coal stove. She baked the bread and also cakes and pies for her husband's lunch bucket, which would be for a whole weeks supply. Some of the immigrants said that they bought cabbage in large quantities and made sauerkraut for the winter's food supply. The sauerkraut barrel was kept in a dirt dug out cellar. Flour for making bread came in flour bags made out of cloth. They were called flour sacks and the mother made the sewed petticoats for the school daughters. The mother's work was never finished. The children learned to do the chores early. They brought in the water from the outside. The house was anything but modern. They also carried the wood for the fire to be built in the stove. The kitchen stove was the old fashioned black stove with a reservoir on one end for the water supply to be kept hot. The immigrants also bought seeds from the old country and planted them in their garden. The garden helped to supply much of their vegetables. They also brought their superstitions and legends. Well, my father had one. If a woman carrying an empty pail or bucket of any kind would cross in front of a miner's path, that meant he would be hurt in the mine. And my father was very bad for that. He gave me heck a lot of times because he was always in a hurry with the water bucket to get water and when he would come around the corner and he would say, “You turn back. Go back the other way. I don't want to get hurt in the mine.” My dad was very bad for that. That was his biggest one that he had. And I never heard any other miners, but that was his belief. And there used to be a steam barrel that was extending from the mine someplace and they had a big barrel out there and women used to go out there and gather a bucket and do their laundry and they had nice hot water, and they didn't have to heat it. I used to go there, too, and a lot of times when the women would pass there and get water and he would be coming home from the mine, he couldn't say nothing to them, but he was plenty sore, and so in a few days if he got a little hurt he would say, “Well, I told you. I got hurt in the mine.”

CB: Where does the superstition come from?

AM: I sure don't know. I wish I knew. But you know, he was odd in a lot of ways. And I think those old country people were odd in the early days. I really believe they were odd.

CB: How so? Was that something he might have brought over with him from...

AM: It could have been. Kids like to make fun out of their daddies sometimes. Not mean, but joking, and we used to call him the “odd ball.” We would say we saw our daddy coming hone, we'd say, “Well, here comes the odd ball.” Cause he did have some odd ways. That was his belief. This was another one that Mr. Mateevy told me. He worked in a mine, but he worked in a mine where he said it was very low, and he said he would have to go in with his back bent. And before he passed away we used to sit out here on his back porch and I would sometimes stop. He was all by himself and he would get lonesome, so I would sit and talk out there with him on the bench. He told me this one here. I think this is a legend. It is not a superstition. I don't know what you'd call it, but anyway, I will tell it. He said once there was a witch and she was lying down on a cot and she had long hair and the hair was draped over the bed and it was almost touching the ground. And he said she kept sleeping and sleeping and one person went to get her scissors and thought, “Well, I will cut her hair off. It is too long. It is dragging on the floor and I will cut it off before she wakes up.” So he started cutting her hair off and she woke up and she says, “That's the worst thing you could have ever done. On account of that you will never see me again. And she disappeared and nobody ever heard of the witch again. I think that is more legend, don't you

CB: Did that happen here?

AM: No, that happened in the old country. Because these old people they know a lot of them and be kept telling some more, but I wished I'd of copied them down, but I never thought about it and I remembered this one because this one was kind of amusing about that long hair. It was draped over the bed that they bring over here. And I know that a lot of those people from over there have a lot of those kind of legends like that. They are more like fairy tales I think. I think that is where the fairy tales came from. Me and my brother, we used to be so crazy about fairy tales, even after we grew up. I still read fairy tales. I still have a fairy tale book. I still read them. And we used to get Grimm's Fairy Tales, Anderson Fairy Tales. I think they all came back way back from the German and Scandinavian countries. I think that is where the fairy tales originated. We always liked them. That is how come when I heard him talking all those things, I wish I had kept track of that. I still remember that one because that one is kind of amusing about the witch.

Where were we now?

They always brought their superstitions and legends and all their beliefs and ways of life they brought with them. Their parents arranged the marriages of the children in the early days was called arranged weddings. I don't know if you ever heard of that. You've heard of that because I know we have that in our family, too. My dad's... one of his nieces, she's a step niece, she was about 24, 25 years old and her patents had a good friend. He was in his 50's already and so they matched them up together. But it turned out to be a happy marriage. Course he passed away three, four years ago, and she is a widow now, but he left her pretty well fixed. And that's how some of them did. The family was poor...

CB: Was that in Walsenburg?

AM: No, that was in Raton, N.M. And she is in Texas today and see my aunt passed away about 3 months ago in September and we all went to the funeral and she was there and I got to see her. I hadn't seen her in years and years and they had two daughters, and see that money gave them the best of education. They both went to the University of New Mexico at Albuquerque, and they didn't go to Texas. There is a university there, too, that University of West Texas, and that is a good school too, but they sent then there but they finished their college and one majored in Sociology and the other became a registered nurse and today one of them lives in San Diego. She joined the Navy and is a navy nurse and her husband has a Drug Store, they have then on ships, don't they? Well, they live on the sea coast there and I guess they have their home on the ship and the other one lives in Louisiana. I don't know what she is doing. But they both have their education and they both were given piano lessons, too. So they were given all the advantages that there was, through this marriage. I guess in the early days they did that for the benefit of the whole family. You don't even know who in the family is going to come home and say, “Dad, this is my wife,” and the parents don't even know they are going with her. I didn't know my brother was going with that girl until one day he came over and he says, “Get dressed up. I am going to take you down to Turner.” I says, “Turner, what are you going to take me to Turner for?” He says, “I want you to meet my new in-laws.” Now you see how that was? I didn't know anything. He didn't tell me nothing. He didn't tell my father anything. So I dressed up, not too fancy and we went in the car over to their house and here Mrs. Medwith had a big meal prepared. It wasn't nothing elaborate but it was just a get together for the family. So you see, that wasn't an arranged wedding.

CB: It was not.

AM: No, because, you see, they, like I said I think they met in Turner dance hall because I don't know where else he could have met her. I never saw her before. I think I did once before, but I didn't really know who she was. Because I had another friend and she said hello once to her on the street and I asked her, I said, “Kathy, who is that?” So she told me, but I didn't know he was even going with her. Kathy didn't even know it either and here... I said afterwards when we went home, “How in the world did you meet that girl?” I said why you didn't tell us anything. They don't tell their parents nothing any more.

CB: Wasn't that the place that most of them got to meet....

AM: At Jackson or Turner or, I think some of them even met... well, there's another man, he met his wife in a Toltec beer joint. She was waitin' on the bar. Oh, you know, as far as that goes, these immigrants, some of them knew each other in the old country and they came over and maybe some settled in one camp and maybe another group settled in another camp and then later on they met somewhere and they'll tell you, “I knew them in the old country.” Yeah, that's how that'll go. I knew because when we was living in Big Four there was this woman there and that cashier we had in Tioga store she knew his mother and dad over in old country and he was living in Morley.

CB: What was their name, do you know?

AM: Stuydhar. There's a lot of Stuydhars. I don't know if they are related or not. They were more Slavic peoples. I forget where she said she was from. See my dad, she was pretty close to where his mother came from. I hid a map here of how that Tyrol business runs. You see, there is a big mountain pass and Austria was north of the Brenner Pass, Italy was south of the Brenner Pass, and I guess you've heard of Innsbrook. That's where they had the Olympics last year. That's in the Tyrol, Austria. Tyroleans, they call 'em Tyroleans, their Italian way of calling themselves is Tyroleans. Down below is another little state called Modena but it is in Northern Italy, but it is not included in this. And this is where my aunt that died, this is where she came from. She came from Modena. And down below would be more Southern Italy. See Italians in the South and Italians in the North are two different people. And then where the Adriatic Sea was, Yugoslavia was on the other side and then up above, that's where.... there was a man that was staying at the nursing home, see I do volunteer work sometimes up there. And this old man, he was in his 8O's. He was from Austria, too, and he told us that when he came to this country he came on a ship called Franz Joseph and it set sail from Trieste. See Trieste is on the coast. That's part of the Italian Tyrol, Trieste is. He sailed from there, but he was a Slav. But I guess, I don't know~...

CB: What was his name?

AM: I am trying to think what his name.... he's got a kind of a... I'll have to ask Mrs. Sharp. His wife was staying up there, too, but she died and then they sent over to a nursing home over in Canon City, I think. I am not sure. But he is not there anymore, see. But they made a lot of changes over there. See when the new people took over, there was a lot of changes. They sent some of them over to a nursing home over in Canon City. So this, I don't know if he is there or not. But anyway he was, oh, he was up in his 80's already and I guess he knows lots about these legends. He was from Austria. See that part of the country was under Franz Joseph. Emperor, Franz Joseph. That was the Austrian Empire before World War I, before 1914. Then after the countries began to change..

CB: This man from the nursing home. Did he come here to work in the mines or you don't know?

AM: I really don't know. You see, there was another guy, I had a really good friend, he was living in the housing projects there and we were going over there and Amelia Sporleder wanted Frank to go ahead and visit with him because he was alone, his wife was sick in the hospital up there. I don't know what was wrong with him. And he would go in there and they would chat together about their early days. But I had to go back downstairs because he was always making something and they was making something to sell. Whenever the time came to sell it, like Easter time came and we had to hurry up and finish making lot of Easter bunnies. And they couldn't get enough made for all the demands that they had, so I think it was around that time. So he would sit up in his room and talk with him and then when I would go for him after I was finished with my work they would still be talking and then I said, “Frank, let's go. I want to go home. I got to go build a fire and do my work.” And they would just keep on talking and I would hear little things what they would tell each other. And they were both from Austria, but Frank was from a city called Salzburg. Now that's in Austria, but that is not in Tyrol.

CB: What is Frank's last name?

AM: His name was REIRNLEINTER. He said it means pipe liner in German. He was interesting to talk with. He died... He passed away, it will be a whole year the first day of February and the last time I got to see him he was sitting in Dr. Duris's office and when he got through he said, “Agnes, I got to go right away. They are going to come with an ambulance for me. I have to have a blood transfusion right away. I'll take you home.” And so I let him go quick. He went to the housing project and the ambulance came and took him to this little hospital up here. He had to stay there till they could have a bed for him in the hospital in Denver. See, they was all filled up, because Dr. Duris was calling up. So, the next day I went to see him. I walked all the way to the hospital from where I live, all the way to the hospital and he told me, said, “How'd you get up here?” And I said, “I walked.” And that was the last time I ever saw him. He stayed there about three weeks. They operated on him and he had a blood clot. And I didn't think he would pass away. I thought he would pull through. He was going to a good hospital. Had good doctors up there. But I guess that doesn't help a person all the time. And so one morning I was in the kitchen and I heard somebody calling me. It was Mrs. Sporleder and she told me, she said, “Do you have Frank's keys to his apartment?” I said, “No, I don't. He took them to Denver with him.” And then she looked at me and I could tell something was funny but I didn't... and then she said, “Well, I have bad news for you.” And I looked at her and I said, “Yeah” She says, “Frank died this morning.” So that... lost a good friend. So.... So that is just a picture of the mining area and the street and the houses. Just to show you that. When I was going up the road. And that is the road to the company store, I used to think, “My daddy is underneath working in the mine.”

CB: This was out at Big Four? Okay, well, last time we went through that big map that you brought....

AM: I wished I could find that one that I made. I took great pains to make this one here. It has even got colors. I used colored pens to color it, it was made on butcher paper. I am going to try to look for that. It shows you everything in just about the right locations. You can always use a map.

CB: Could we start now maybe on some pictures. Description of Pictures.

AM: Yeah, let's do the pictures. I think this one here. Of course, you can have it closer to you because I know what they are.

CB: Well, I can see this little house. Is that a pump house?

AM: No, that's a little outdoor privy.

CB: Privy, yes.

AM: Is that how you pronounce it? They had one for each family. And you can see another house way up in there. See, there is an ally up here. See out house was on the front row. Then there is a second row and a third row.

AM: This was taken before that. This is even a little younger yet. And this was my brother when he was in school. This was a freshman in high school and this was a sophomore. That's in Walsenburg when I went to high school. See, we had to wear uniforms. Middys.

CB: To the high school?

AM: Yeah. We had to. They don't anymore but we had to wear skirts and middys. You can see the mine here. That is my brother right there. Those railroad tracks go clear over to this place over here where the tipple is. And then you cross and there are some more buildings and then there are those big rolls of wires over here. You can see... this part here. And this other house, this four room house over there, you can see some more, some second row.

CB: Oh, yes, those are big houses aren't they.

AM: This was a four room. That's what I said. There were lot's of empty spaces between the four room houses and then when they brought the three room houses they just put them in between the spaces. There is that rock dump that you see. See. And there's the street. There is that rock dump. See there are 10 houses on this row. Ours was the third.

CB: There is nothing out there now.

AM: This is another group of students. I don't know who put this one in. This is me, this is my class here. And this was our journalism class. And then later on when it was getting time to graduate out of school they took pictures of all the group of us and I think I am right in here somewhere. Right here. See they all had skirts and middys. You know why? Because in the early days there used to be some rich people's children go to the high school like Lamme's and Merritts and what's some more? There's more of them. And in order to... You know they would dress up in their finest clothes. Well the coal miners' daughters would come in cotton stockings and just cotton dresses, so that was the rule that everybody had to dress the same. But you know they were pretty nice. They were pretty nice to us, those...

CB: I see there is a black woman in your school.

AM: Oh, she was the only one. Navarro. She would get up on the stage when they had a play. And special they would put her up there and she would sing St. Louis Blues. And she would throw her arms up. She had a voice. She could sing. And that was her specialty, that St. Louis Blues. I guess you have heard of it. That St. Louis Blues. Then that was a play. I think it was called Jupiee Troubadour and they took pictures. And here they are, the whole cast. And... And this is our sneak day, when we went on a picnic to Cucharas Pass. That's me. I think one of them is a weenie roast. Me right here. My brother took these. This is the edge of tile rock. Same house. Now you can see the camp. See. Everybody had a trash barrel. Actually coal camp life wasn't so bad when you look at it. This is the high school at it originally looked like. The teachers had these plays, they took these too, and they used to sell them to us for three for a dime. Isn't that something, three for a dime? And here is an old Walsen Camp school bus. And they used to... there was three of them. One took Cameron kids home and one took the Walsen kids. Old fashioned school bus. It was pinks. Here's the kids going to school. They took it when there was some people in it. And there's some sitting up in here. And in back over here is the Protestant Cemetery.

Agnes Mozar Tape 3 Side 2

CB: Yea.

AM: And I waited till they fired up the furnace so I could take a picture while it's smoking, and see all the smoke. And I waited till the four o'clock whistle blew. If it blew one big long one the miners knew they were going back to work tomorrow. And if it blew two short ones they knew there was no work tomorrow. See and you could see the steam. And when you cross over here you cross the railroad tracks, see that coal carts come from an opening here and goes right straight over to this place here. And here's your crusher, and that crusher was used to crush the coal that they were going to crush. And there was a man, he was working out there, and he must have had a jacket on and it was kind of windy and he got caught on the edge, like this, and he got caught in the crusher and it went right through the crusher and killed him. And when they went to notify the widow, she lived up in the third row. When they went to notify her, they didn't want to scare her and they knocked on her door arid said, “Your husband got hurt in the mine today!” She said, “Was he hurt bad?” “Oh, he's dead already.” Instead of coming out and saying, “Your husband got killed, they didn't come out and say it that way, they tried to smooth it out. Oh, yea, here's my brother, this is me, this is my brother, and this is that kid with that ribbon in her hair, but this is a good picture. I got a bigger one in the other book but it's not clear like this. The Broome Brothers in Pueblo developed that and they did good work. So they went and send it to Denver some place and I don't know.

CB: What did General Pershing come to visit for do you know?

AM: He was just passing through, it said he was on his way, it told you where he was on his way from. He was traveling overland from Arizona where he spent the winter to his home In Lincoln; the students here are the only group he will probably address on the trip. As soon as the local merchants heard of the general's plans to stop in Walsenburg they put their American flags out in front of their stores, giving the city a holiday atmosphere. That's in Walsenburg in back, close to the Cucharas River here in the hills.

CB: Where is that, over that bridge....?

AM: It's West Tenth Street; do you know where West Tenth Street is? It's the last street out there, and in back of there are a lot of trees and then the creek runs through there. It's on the edge of town. I guess it is kind of ... I don't go over there, I guess it is. I had a friend who was living there, her and her sister. And we took pictures one day and the other day we took some more. And look at the little brother posing up on top of the hill.

CB: Yeah, I see him. What river is this one?

AM: That isn't a river. Let me explain what that is. That is the hole that was by the mines. They never did fill it in and ever time it rained… look at the water. And this is all the timbers that they used in the mine for the miners to prop up their p1ace, see. So I went across these and a friend was on that side and so she took a picture. That looks like a rock here. And this is that bunkhouse that I told you about that we had first lived in. It was right in back of there, that bunkhouse. And there are five outdoor privies, [one] for each of the families that were supposed to have two rooms. That's my brother. That's the same thing again. It looks like a big lake or something. Looks like the big wind was blowing, it's rippling. Yeah. And me and a lady were sitting up there. See, now the mine is right down below. See, new the mine is right down below. See, that's all that lumber they pile up. And that's my brother when he got married; he had a little two room house in the second row because it was hard to get houses. There were so many couples getting married and they had to take two room houses, and then he got a three room house. That's the little girl. I forget. She was a queen in a play or something. That little. She was a smart little thing. Looks like a doll sitting there with them legs, doesn't it?

CB: Yeah, it does look like a doll.

AM: That is my brother's first car. No, this was the first car. This was a “Chevy'. He bought them second hand. He's a mechanic. He don't need to take car to the garage. When she started walking he made this potty chair for her. That was her tray to eat here, it was a combination. It was a two room house. Then he made this baby bed and she's in the bed.

CB: Very nice piece of work.

AM: This is when we took a trip to New Mexico. When we first went to see Taos, I think, Taos, New Mexico. See, we took a trip. We went to Eagle Nest. I think that is close to Cimarron Canyon. That's that lake that's there. Then this is her when she got her arm burnt. Look at those legs. Oh, you can see the camp houses. Look how good! See, there's another three room house in between this one. But you can't see it. And see, this would be the third row, I think, because this is already second row. But you sure see lots of these. When we went to Cimarron, this is a garden in Cimarron, the way they made their fountain and water. It was real pretty. You had every color flower in there. And then, you know, I like mission type buildings. This is in Taos. See, the bell up there. I think they used them for stores and different things. That is just magazine section. Here is some more of the mine. Here is me with a mandolin. This isn't the first instrument. The first instrument I had was a violin. And when I was going to take private lessons from a lady that came up there, when I had to hold that under my chin, I couldn't hold it and I gave it up. I didn't like it. Then I went a bought this little Mexican mandolin. Then I bought this one. Then I always used to like this guitar the best. But I always liked the guitar the best because the guitar had a better tone to it. But I had a guitar first, then a violin, then a mandolin. Then I went back to guitar. And then that's my brother.

CB: I keep moving this around so I can see; I am not trying to do anything.

AM: You do it just how you can see. And this is up in Butte Valley where they have all those evergreen trees. They had a beautiful camp because they had a lot of evergreen trees. We had more of a prairie out there.

CB: Who is this?

AM: John B. Toliki.

CB: Is he your relative?

AM: Yeah. His mother and my mother were first cousins. So that would wake him second cousins. This is his sister and this is his little boy but his wife isn't in the picture. Then this is their sister that died. She was a skating star. This girl here. They were all in Olympics. This girl is a skating star so they had her picture and I preserved it by putting that yellow glue on it.

AM: See, my dad's father was a Tyrolean and he worked on the road, like I said, and then he went on the Slav side and he married a Slav woman. These people are half Slav and half Italian. See, the Tyrolis. This was all in Tyrol in the early, early days and the Italians that wore in the Southern part of it. They were mixed with Austrian blood. That's my brother, and his little girl. That's his daughter. His boy and his girl.

CB: I liked your cards. I thought they were very straight forward.

AM: I might leave this one here. I don't know if you can use it or not.

CB: That would be very nice. I will look through this.

AM: See, 35 years ago.... Well, this is 1949 [sic] already. But in 1949 this was the scene, 35 years ago, In Trinidad, outside church after funeral service for victims of the Ludlow massacre. You see the old fashion way they took the caskets. See the hearses. There are two or three and there are the horses drawing them. Look at the people and look how old fashioned looking clothes they wore. That was old time. That was the Holy Trinity Catholic Church.

CB: Is that here in town?

AM: No, that is in Trinidad. Right in the middle of Trinidad. Where does it say....? Wait till you see some more of it. That's just the cover. This is the United Mine Worker's Journal. Here we are. Here is one of them. This is the children. The white caskets belong to the children. And these two are the adults. Look at the men. See how they sit way up here. And there is these two dark horses and then there's three pallbearers on each side. Look at this procession. Look how many. Five. Look at the derby hats. Old fashioned. They are going up Main Street and they are going way out east to the Catholic cemetery. It was mostly immigrants from Europe and that's why it's a Catholic funeral. See, and these are walking here. But look how high they have them. Did you notice how high this is? And of course that is the monument. It tells you right here too. “That was of the situation that brought about the strike.” Someday you can read it.

CB: Yes, I'd love to be able to. Let's look through it.

AM: I was looking, it's a continued over here, but I think … those are the pictures. Here is a change of address. I thought was San Francisco, is Washington, DC, and then this is the.... He always was giving advice, “Miner Jim”. They had one all the time. This came out twice a month. People that had boys in service, they would send in a picture and tell about their boy. They were proud of their sons. Then of course the back page is recipes or gardening or something and this is all the news of all the relatives in St. Louis, where they live. And this is Badito. Do you recognize that building? You pass it every day.

CB: Oh, I sure do. That's the old courthouse there. At Badito. Or it's what they call the courthouse. It's that old building.

AM: When I was teaching school I lived in the front room to stay.

CB: Oh, you used to live in that building. This was the original county seat.

AM: Yes, before they put this courthouse here, it was the county seat.

CB: And you lived there?

AM: Yeah, I lived in that one room there. Do you recognize this? You go and as you go you turn to Gardner this way and this road goes up to the schoolhouse that's up on top of that hill. Remember that schoolhouse. You see, it's adobe building, all ruined.

CB: I have never seen that. I've never been over there across that...

AM: And see this adobe building here, there's nothing but a few adobes I think now. There was a barn there. Then when you get over here you turn in here going to Gardner. See it. You recognize this adobe house?

CB: Where is this house in that?

AM: It would be over here, a little further back here where that mailbox is.

CD: This is the old bridge across the Huerfano River. There is a new bridge; instead of going in front of this old house, it comes....

AM: This used to pass right in front of the house. Not any more. I noticed that when we went there, The new road goes different. But that road doesn't … another little road that goes up this way and there is an old adobe school that was on top of the hill and it has crumbled. The kids that were going to school burned it. They didn't want no school. That's why it's destroyed. There's no roof on it. They burnt the school. I was living in Trinidad when that happened. I saw it in the “Chieftain”. See, you turn this way and go up to Gardner. Do you see what it is? That's, that adobe building and they used to keep their grain and everything in here, the family that lived here.

CB: That's a very old building.

AM: Yeah. And that's, that schoolhouse. As you go ... that's, that schoo1house on top of the hill. You know, I had these negatives made and I gave them to the drugstore and they sent them to Denver and look how dark they made them and I didn't want to throw them away, so I put them in the scrapbook but I was going to save these and someday make them over again. You can't even see some of them. This is where you cross over this bridge.

CB: I've crossed that little bridge there but I never went up the hill. This is from up at the top of the hill, right.

AM: This is when you are coming back from Gardner and going down, see, you pass that house and then the barn. These are the barns. Then the house is over here. There are lots of trees around there.

CB: Today the road goes over by this cliff. It doesn't run here.

AM: I know, it's changed.

CB: Then, instead of turning here and crossing the river, it goes around here until it hits the river. See, the river goes around here and then curves. It goes this way and crosses the river after it curves.

AM: Yeah.

CB: I can make it out though. It looks beautiful, just like today.

AM: That was the old road and the river.

CB: It looks like there was more water in the river.

AM: And that adobe building. See, there is a corral right there. And then the road goes this way. And there is some more of the bridge. And this was just further up where there is more water. I like to take pictures of rivers. I don't know.... And his head is cut off there. It on the smaller negative. When they enlarged it they cut the head off. These children, when they came to school, they bring their animals. They are part of their life. They bring their animals to school. This boy brought his dog. This boy brought his horse. And they brought their horse. One day this boy... the dog used to come in and one day this boy was at the blackboard drawing a picture of a horse and this boy was too, Lee, where is he. And his dog came in and his dog went and nipped him right in the back ... this boy here that's on the horse. And he got so mad. So the next day, you know what he did? He brought a dog that was twice as big as this dog. I don't know what kind of a dog it was. It was a great big dog and when ... they called this dog Terry ... and when Lee saw Terry around in there he turned his dog loose and they had a dog fight and that dog nearly killed that dog and Jimmy kept saying, “Please stop them. Please stop them.” And they couldn't and finally I guess they did stop the fighting. He blamed Jimmy that he blamed him for doing that and he said he didn't. But that was sure something. See.

CB: Is this the little schoolhouse up on the school at Badito?

AM: Yeah. And that was another boy and he didn't want to he in the picture. He was an older boy, I guess, and he hid himself. And this one here. These boys, they like to be in the picture. This is the same one only he is stooping down here. He was dressed in cowboy style.

CB: Do you know any 1ast names of these people?

AM: I think these were the Sanistevens. This is a Sanisteven boy. They were the ones that were living in the house.

Tape 4 (Side 1)

CB: Here we are, now we are on play, and that's the level of my voice, so we can tell, if I were to ask you a question or play the guitar and then we can see if we can hear it on here. What is your name?

AM: My name is Agnes.

CB: Agnes Mozar. OK, I am going to stop it right here. Practicing for us. OK, this is not anything where we are going to work about keeping it or anything. So you and I can just start off.

AM: In the cavern...

CB: Yeah, and I believe the time is 3/4, is that right?

AM: Yeah, 3/4 time, waltz time.

CB: OK, and we'll do ... what's a good speed for you? What speed do you like?

AM: Yeah. That swingy way…

CB: Is that fast enough?

AM: Yeah. Are you starting with the chorus first?

CB: Right at the top.

AM: Do you want me to start it?

CB: I'll count. I'll say, 1, 2, 3... In a cavern.., or I will play a couple of bars and then you start in when you feel like it.

AM: All right.
In a cavern, in a canyon,
Excavating for a mine,
Dwelled a miner, 49'er
And his daughter Clementine.

I sing it better at home.

CB: In a cavern, in a canyon
Excavating for a mine
Dwelled a miner, 49'er,
And his daughter, Clementine.

Oh my darling, oh my darling
Oh my darling, Clementine,
You are lost and gone forever
Dreadful sorry, Clementine

Light she was and like a feather
And her shoes were number 9
Oh my darling, etc.

Drove she (ducklings) to the water
Every morning just at 9
Hit her foot against a splinter
Fell into the foaming brine

Oh my darling, etc.

Rugby lips above the water
Blowing bubbles soft and fine
Alas for me I was no swimmer
So I lost my Clementine.
Oh my darling, etc.

CB: That was pretty good. She [sic] we call that our first practice. Would you like to try one with your playing? And I will hold this in front of you.

AM: Yeah. If you give me that chair so I can sit down.

CB: This is not so good.

AM: Maybe I can just stand...

(background noises)

CB: Can you see this.

AM: I think I can see it right here with my glasses on. Maybe just a little tiny bit...
In a cavern
In a canyon etc.
(repeat of Clementine)

I make a few little mistakes now and then. But practicing ... little by little. I figured. This is why I brought this...

CB: When we are recording like this, there is a time delay in the tape. Can you hear it? It sounds like an echo. It rattles a little bit. Can you hear that?

AM: Yes, I hear something.

CB: OK Agnes, what are we going to try here? This one is …

AM: Union Maid.

CB: Union Maid. OK..

AM: There once was a union maid
Who never was afraid
Of the goons and the ginks and the company finks
And the deputy sheriffs that made the raids

She went to the union hall
When the meeting it was called
And when the company boys came round
She always stood her ground.

CB: I have a suggestion.

AM: You can play that one.

CB: I don't need a pick for that one. Let's get that time, now.

AM: You ought to put bigger letters next time.

CB: Let's get it right over here where you can see it.

AM: I can see this. You know what I have been doing, for so many years, I bet I can get it the first time through. Let me go through the first one, and you tell me if this is the rhythm...
There once was a union maid
Who never was afraid
Of the goons and the ginks and the company finks
And the deputy sheriffs who made the raids.

She went to the union hall
Where a meeting it was called
And when them company boys come round
She always stood her ground.

AM & CB: Oh, you can't scare me
She'd always get her way
When she struck for higher pay
She'd show her card to the company guard
And this is what she'd say.

Oh, you can't scare me. etc.

No you guys who want to be
Now you gals who want to be free
Just take this tip from me
Get you a man who's a union man
And join the ladies Auxiliary

Married life ain't hard
When you've got a union card
And a union man has a happy life
When he's got a union wife.

Oh, you can't scare me, etc.

I'm sticking to the union
I'm sticking to the union
Oh, you can't scare me,
I'm stickin' to the union
I'm stickin' to the union
Till the day I die.

CB: Let's start right over at the beginning again. You sing and I'll sing the chorus.

AM: There was once was a union maid. etc.

CB: We are going to have to change keys here. That is a better key for you, isn't it? Let's see if we can get you there. It's still a little low, isn't it?

AM: There once was a union maid, etc.
This union maid was wise
To the tricks of the company spies
Couldn't be fooled by the company stools
She'd always organize the guys

That wasn't so bad for the first time.

CB: That was fine. Let's just start right over on the other side and do both of them.

AM: You want to do this one.

CB: Let's do both of them.

In a cavern, in a canyon
Excavating for a mine
Dwelled a miner, 49'er
And his daughter, Clementine.

Oh, my darling, oh, my darling
Oh, my darling, Clementine.
You're lost and gone forever
Dreadful sorry, Clementine.

Light she was and like a fairy
And her shoes were number nine
Caring [sic] boxes without topses
Sandals were for Clementine.

Oh, my darling, etc.

Drove she ducklings
To the water
Every morning just at 9
Hit her foot against a splinter
Fell into the foaming brine.

Oh, my darling etc.
Rugby lips above the water, etc.

CB: Much better, Agnes. Bravo. Ok, now then maybe we'll get the union maid.

AM: Yeah.

CB: Let's see, we changed the keys.

AM: It sounds better when it's a little higher.

CB: Is that a good tempo. Let me count it off and you can start when I play or whatever.

AM: There once was a union maid, etc.

CB: Let's start over, try again. Here's what helps. When you are playing by yourself you play what you feel like but when we are playing together it is easier for me if I can depend on the tempo kind of rolling along. Think about this. See if this is comfortable. (sings) There once was a union maid, etc.

AM: (Joins in) And when the company boys come around etc.

CB: OK, so let's try it. And you sing in your high voice, I just don't have a high voice. I have a low voice.

AM: You are not a tenor, are you?

CB: Oh, I kind of sing a little tenor. As I get older my voice seems to be getting a little higher.

AM: Higher.

CB: I don't smoke cigarettes anymore, so my voice is clear.

AM: I think that has a lot to do with it. They say that smoking causes a lot of problems.

CB: Lots of problems, yeah. So let's start here at the top.

AM: There once was a union maid etc. (all the way through)

CB: Ok, we're getting there. Let's listen to them. I want to hear what it sounds like.

CB: Let's see. Ok, we're in business, Agnes.

AM: My daddy worked in a coal mine
I never saw him half the time.
My daddy worked in a coal mine
I never saw him half the time

My daddy worked in a coal mine
To buy a dress for me so fine.
He left early in the morning
While I was still asleeping
I never saw him again till later in the evening
He worked in the dark.

Boy, I practiced that one this morning. You know, you forget your own work.
He went in the dark
He worked in the dark
And when he came home
It was getting dark.
It was getting dark,
It was getting dark.
And when he came home again,
It was getting dark.

I'll have to do that one over again. Cause I kind of forget where I put my keys.
He worked in coal mine
He was always on time
My daddy worked in a coal mine
Trying to make a dime.
He knew a lot about the dangers
So he kept his places with timbers.
His only light was a carbide lamp
And he'd sweat in the dark and the damp.
Now there's a chorus again.
He went in the dark etc.

I'm going to practice that one again, because that's my own. That's about my own pappy.
My daddy worked in the coal mine
He always was on time
My daddy worked in the coal mine
Trying to make a dime.
He knew all about the danger
He kept his place fixed with timbers
His only light was a carbide lamp
As he worked and sweated in the dark and damp.

He went in the dark
He worked in the dark
And when he came home
It was getting dark.
It was getting dark
It was getting dark
And when he came home again
It was getting dark.
That one's going to have to have a lot of practice. That is a new one. It is not a very familiar with my old tunes.


AM: My daddy worked in a coal mine
I never saw him half the time
My daddy worked in a coal mine
To buy for me a dress so fine

He left home early in the morning
While I was still asleeping
I never saw him again
Till later in the evening.

He went in the dark
He worked in the dark
And when he came home
It was getting dark
It was getting dark
It was getting dark
And when he came home again
It was getting dark.

My daddy worked in a coal mine
He always was on time
My daddy worked in a coal mine
Trying to make a dime.

He knew a lot about the danger
So he kept his place fixed with timber
His only light was his carbide lamp
As he worked and sweat in the dark and damp.

He went in the dark
He worked in the dark
And when he came home
It was getting dark
It was getting dark
It was getting dark
Arid when he came home again
It was getting dark

My daddy worked in a coal mine
He always was on time
My daddy worked in a coal mine
Trying to make a dime.

He knew all about the dangers
He kept his place fixed with timber
His only light was a carbide lamp
As he worked and sweat in the dark and damp

He went in the dark etc.

Do you think you can...

CB: I was hoping...

AM: This one here that I was at, the one on the hill, that's what they call the upper Badito. I don't know if you saw the schoolhouse picture. They was published in the paper a few months ago. They had everyone except this one and I don't think anybody had this one. They had the lower Badito, a picture of the lower Badito in there.

CB: Where is the lower Badito?

AM: More further down, where the Pino's are. The Pino family. See, there was two Pino families living in adobe house. They were like one big... like a reservation almost. Houses...

CB: Where was this? Was this down the river from Badito or on the road?

AM: It is more further back up over in the..

CB: Oh, into the Valley.

AM: Yeah, way further down this way. Because see when you go to Badito this way, it would go back this way.

CB: Oh, I see, it would go toward town.

AM: Yeah, but I think the other Badito must have been about three, four miles away. I don't know exactly how far. But the Pino boys used to come on the horse. In the winter time, they rode on horses in the winter time.

CB: Was Jake one of the Pino boys?

AM: No, Jake wasn't. I had Lee and Auralia, the sister names Auralia. And Freddy. I think Freddy works for the mortuary. He digs graves.

CB: Freddy Pino. You taught him in what grade?

AM: You know him? I had Freddy. I had Lee. I had Auralia. And then I had sister Rachel in my house a few years ago. When … after I moved back to Walsenburg. She was a private student. Then I had a Miller boy. There was one Miller that was married into the Pino family. So it was like a family coming to school. And then I had the Santistevens. Ben Santisteven's two children, I had Jimmy and Mercy. That was Mercy and Jimmy. Jimmy was a clown. I tell you.

CB: Did you like him? Did he keep you laughing? That's one of the best parts of being a teacher.

AM: You can use this to make notes.,

CB: Well, yes….

AM: How much time do we have?

CB: We have about another 20 minutes.

AM: This is the book that had the Badito pictures. I have the negatives and I have a magnifying glass and we can go straight through. You can look. Elaine, these were taken on the ranch. You saw them, maybe you can explain. Here I will... These are the negatives, while Elaine goes through...

CB: I talked to the photographer and he was very, very happy about this. These have never been developed into prints, is that right?

AM: These were just developed about a year ago. I sent them.. I had them all that time. The drug store in town send them to Denver. Look how dark they make them. You can't see what they are. So I have them in here and you can see them better in the negative. These are all Badito here. Let's see. That first is Jimmy Santisteven. The Santisteven Family lived in this house and I had a room in the front.

CB: Agnes knew that this was the first courthouse.

AM: That was the county seat.

CB: That is Jimmy again and one of his brothers.

AM: That is Freddy. That is the one that works for the undertaker. That is Freddy and Jimmy. That is the original street scene where they still had that old road and the concrete bridge. It was arched under the water. You will see it in some of these other pictures. These are taken at the school. They brought a lot of animals. They were great for bringing their animals to school. Jimmy and his dog. Jimmy dressed western style and there is Freddy on the horse.

CB: You told me this story last time about he brought this dog and it nipped somebody on the...

AM: Yeah. Lee, Freddy's brother, was.., went in this classroom and Jimmy was drawing a picture of a horse and this Terry, Jimmy's dog came inside of the building and he nipped Lee right in his back there. And he got so mad. So the next day he brought a great big dog, twice as big as Terry and he sic'd him on this Terry and nearly killed him. And Jimmy couldn't do nothing about it. But I guess the dog, he pulled through. He lived. But that big dog just about killed him.

CB: And Jimmy was saying, “Please, get him off…”

AM: Yeah. And here is Freddy, that boy that works for Lawson, digging graves. Freddy. He lost three bays. They fell into the ditch. I don't know if you heard about it. She knows about the story. This is Auralia Pino, this is a sister to this. She is holding a picture. I was going to try to get Lee in the picture. And he runs away. Mounts a horse, trying to get away. And Freddy is watching him. But, see, that picture is so dark. But you are going to see them better in the negative, Jimmy is looking through the window at his sister, she is talking to the sister through the window. That is a shame about that school. There is the school. I build a fire in the stove. I went ahead of the kids and built a fire. (Further narrative of pictures.)

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