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INTERVIEWED BY LUCIA MARTINEZ May 1979 in Gardner
TRANSLATED FROM SPANISH BY OLIBAMA LOPEZ-TUSHAR – Jun 23, 1979
SCANNED AND EDITED BY DICK CHENAULT – Dec 2005
PROOFED BY KAREN MITCHELL – Dec 2005
Lucia: What is your name?
Alfredo: Archuleta, Fred Archuleta, Alfredo.
Lucia: Where were you born?
Alfredo: I was born here in Redwing. I think it has been called Redwing since I was born.
Lucia: When, what date?
Alfredo: I don't know but my birthday is around the first days of October.
Mrs. Archuleta: Listen, I was born in 1906 on the 5th day, so I'm one year older.
Alfredo: You can figure it out from that.
Lucia to Mrs. Archuleta: And what is your name?
Lucia: What were your mother's and your father's name.
Lucia: Archuleta also?
Alfredo: Do you want their last name?
Lucia: And on your mother's side, what was her last name?
Filomena: Marina Cardenas de Archuleta, Cardenas de Archuleta for her husband, my dad.
Lucia: Why did these people come here or were they from this valley?
Alfredo: Well, they never talked about having come from some where else. But I understand that these people were not born here. I believe that the Archuletas were not born here. I think these people came from New Mexico according to what I have heard people say, but I don't know from what part of New Mexico.
Filomena: My mother's father, my grandfather was from Santa Fe.
Lucia: And do you remember what his name was?
Filomena: Filomena and I believe that my father's—father's name was Rafael and I believe he came from New Mexico too.
Alfredo: No, that's not so. Our grandfather's name was Rafael Archuleta.
Filomena: Yes, that's why I say that he was my father's father.
Alfredo: Yes, but she wrote down Cardenas. He was Rafael Archuleta; I think these people came from New Mexico.
Lucia: When your folks first came here or were born here, what other families were here at that time?
Alfredo: Yes, there were other people here but I don't know if they were like this one man I remember. His name was Marcos Mares and he was a good rancher. He rented ranches which he planted. In fact, he did most of the work with only a hoe.
Lucia: Did he have a lot of land?
Alfredo: No. He rented the land from my father's first cousin Lupe Archuleta. Lupe rented land to Marcos Mares and to others. I remember that he himself was a good rancher too. He never wore shoes but always went barefooted, as in the old days. People went barefooted when they irrigated.
Lucia: Were there other people besides Marcos Mares and Lupe Archuleta?
Alfredo: Oh yes. They were the old timers. There was an uncle of ours, Antonio Cisneros. He is the father of the young man who is in the hospital here with an amputated leg. He was an old man.
Lucia: Was this place called Gardner in those days?
Alfredo: Yes. As far as I can remember it was called Gardner, Redwing. There was another little place called Malachite, between that road that goes to Pass Creek. That road goes to the other side of the mountain where it meets the big highway. There was also another place, Chama. Another was a town close to the mountain where the Maes's now live called El Rincon, La Rinconada.
Lucia: Did you ever hear about the Plaza de los Valdez, which covered all the area?
Alfredo: Of the Valdez's? No.
Filomena: Who knows if it wasn't those people who lived in Farisita.
Alfredo: But you said it was located in this area.
Lucia: Yes, it included all this area.
Filomena: Well, it could be so, you know.
Lucia: I wanted to know because I have heard that.
Alfredo: No. I haven't heard about those Valdez's. There were some Valdez's but they lived in Chama. There was a very old man called Ramon Martinez de Valdez. I don't know why they called him that. He was a very old man. Do you know the Casias, Luis Casias and John Casias?
Alfredo: He was their grandfather. He was a very old man. I believe he lived to one hundred years.
Filomena: The father of that Juan was called Reyes.
Alfredo: Reyes, and that Ramon Martinez was their grandfathers. The Casias say he lived to be one hundred. That would be good. Let's see if we live that long!
Filomena: My husband's father lasted 90 years.
Lucia: What year did the gentleman die?
Alfredo: I think about six years ago. But he came from Texas.
Filomena: He was born in Laredo, Texas.
Alfredo: Well then, he was from Texas.
Lucia: Don Hilario Cerda?
Alfredo: He came from Texas or Mexico. Who knows from where he came.
Filomena: He had a lot of history too.
Alfredo: They traveled all over. He and this old man here in El Badito.
Lucia: I meant to ask this before. I was told before that there was a celebration here called the day of San Isidro. Did they have such a celebration?
Alfredo: Yes. I don't remember it but my mother used to tell us that people used to carry it through the village. I think that day is passed already because I think it was celebrated in May.
Filomena: We don't have celebrations here now because we have witnesses here now.
Alfredo: Do you know anything about the Jehovah's?
Lucia: No. I've just heard about them but I don't know anything about them.
Alfredo: So you don't associate with them. They have many new histories. They don't know much. They say that nobody dies. The other day my sister who was one of them died and I asked them why they let her die. They said “she died”. Since then I'm not going to believe them.
Lucia: That was a church celebration wasn't it?
Alfredo: Yes. They had wakes at night. They had the wake and the next day they carried the saint about. They had what they called luminarias. That is they built little fires around the church. They placed the saint there and prayed around the luminarias. My mother used to tell me that they made these luminarias like that and then the next day they carried the saint through the ranches. People used to say that the harvest was more abundant when they did this. But people have forgotten all this now.
Lucia: Why have they forgotten?
Alfredo: Oh, the people who believed in God died and the young people began to live a wild life you know, not believing in anything.
Lucia: Couldn't they pass on religion to the young people?
Alfredo: Well we couldn't because people changed. You see, the old people died and the young people left the land and went to the cities and no longer carried on those traditions. They no longer have wakes for the saints in this area. All that is forgotten. I am told that they still do this in New Mexico and Mexico. There's nothing like that now, only drunkeness. But you don't want to know about drunken brawls.
Lucia: Were there more celebrations or was that the only one?
Alfredo: None here you see. There was the celebration of St James Day, St Anna's Day and the Fourth of July. So we spent a lot of time dancing, deprived of sleep. We went without sleep for a month dancing, but not in praying. What do you think? That's sad isn't it.
Lucia: How long have you been married?
Filomena: I got married in 1926.
Alfredo: All I can tell you is that I've been married about 30 years but I don't remember the year.
Filomena: Neither do I remember.
Alfredo: I think we have it written down in the house but you caught me sleeping and dreaming but I have been married about 30 years. I married when I was very old, about 39 years I was single because I traveled a lot here and there and I could have more history to tell.
Lucia: Let me see what else I want to ask, and about how many acres more or less did people need to make a living?
Alfredo: Well you see in those days people could make a living with 2 acres.
Lucia: On 2 acres?
Alfredo: There was plenty. I remember that my mother used to plant half an acre into a vegetable garden and we would eat all summer and all winter from that garden, so you can see it was enough. Today people want everything, the world, but don't do anything but run here and there. It isn't because everything is too dry but because people don't do anything. One can plant a hundred acres and produce no more than a sack of beans and this is even doubtful. Perhaps one can't even produce that much because it is so dry.
Filomena: I don't know how many acres are in a ranch but———
Alfredo: A ranch has one hundred sixty acres.
Filomena: Some have.
Alfredo: Not many had that many acres. Do you know what was in the fields out there? The government free lands, but now everything is tied up. A person could buy a little car and nobody bothered him, no highway patrol, no licenses, no stickers or anything like that, and people were more careful than people are today, that they are so restricted, tied up, people are crazy now.
Lucia: Everything has changed a great deal.
Alfredo: Yes indeed, alot! Well we are about to die anyway, take the last turn on the road, since we are already so old. I am seventy two years old.
Lucia: Seventy two years old?
Alfredo: I am almost, I am seventy one and I am about to hop into the other, (72).
Lucia: What did people do about doctors in those days?
Alfredo: There were mid-wives. I have heard, and it is the truth, that when a women had a baby she stayed in bed 40 days. Not now. If a women has a baby, she goes to dig outside or to take a little drink of whiskey. That's why people lived so many years. And the women were beautiful, yes indeed beautiful people. One never saw people limping, even if they were very old. Listen, my grandfather who was 80, lived two or three miles from us and would walk from there to visit us here at the river. You know that people 70 and older could see very well and didn't wear glasses. Do you know that on St John's Day they used to say that the water was blessed and people would go bathe in the cold water of the river.
Lucia: Oh yes, did people go out on St John's Day?
Alfredo: Yes to bathe. They would put a rosary on their neck to enter the water, the cold water. They used to say the water was blessed on St John's Day and it was ready for the summer. They were different styles, weren't they.
Filomena: It was because St John's Day was the day Jesus was baptized.
Alfredo: They use to dramatize it (the baptism) right there. There were also Penitentes. Do you remember? No, you probably don't know anything about that.
Lucia: I've heard a little about them but———
Alfredo: These Penitintes had processions. They would stay in houses of worship celebrating all that Christ suffered. They also did severe penances. But that's all finished. People don't believe too much in that. No, that is all finished.
Lucia: Well I know we were invited to go to La Morada now for Easter but——
Alfredo: In New Mexico?
Lucia: No, in Walsenburg.
Alfredo: Oh, there in El Chico. There are still Penitentes there. There's .a group of them here in El Rito. There in Chama, there are many of them.
Lucia: And was the Catholic Church involved with them?
Alfredo: Yes, they used to have the wakes here. They used to come from the Morada in Chama to this church here. They had the Tenebral, a Penitente ceremony comemerating the darkness that occurred when Christ died here too. Everyone helped each other and got along well but not now. Now whoever has more does more.
Lucia: Did the people get along well? Were there many Italians?
Alfredo: There were no Italians in this area. Oh there were a few. There was an Italian here, a very old man named Tony Gibbs. He died. He lived in a little place that he had there.
Filomena: There were some Dutch and Germans.
Alfredo: They lived in West Cliff and there were a few at the river.
Lucia: But all this area then belonged to our race didn't it?
Alfredo: Almost all of it. There were a few Dutch here. There were the Mayas and the Deeds. On the other side of West Cliff, all that county, there were many Dutch.
Lucia: So there were Dutch there but not here?
Alfredo: Only the people I told you, the Mayas and Deeds lived here.
Lucia: And did they get along together?
Alfredo: Yes we had good relations. We used to work for them. They were the only people who had money to pay workers. We were always poor and worked hard to make a living. However, we didn't notice the poverty too much because we had enough to eat. We harvested enough of everything to last us until the next harvest.
Filomena: Do you know, I was reading in the paper that came yesterday where it says that they are not going to sell to the poor people.
Alfredo: Listen, what does it matter if they don't sell it, let them give it to us. The ones who have gasoline have to help us. Do you know what is going to happen after all? Do you want me to tell you?
Lucia: What is that?
Alfredo: Trouble! Trouble!
Filomena: Like a revolution.
Alfredo: A war is coming that will put an end to everything. Everything is ready for war. In some places here in the United States there is much buried, a lot you see. There are those gases like the gas used in gas stoves and there are gasoline pumps outside. It's all ready for the world to end as soon as the trigger is pulled. I was talking with a hippy the other day who said that Russia has made a tunnel underground, I don't remember how many miles, a hundred or so long that reaches the borders of the United States and that they have buried a missile in it pointed this way and he said they have put in the missile, I don't remember how many thousands of pounds of gun powder. They don't know where it is but all they have to do is push the button.
Lucia: In the early days did the people live only on the ranches or did they go out to work elsewhere?
Alfredo: No. They lived off just what they produced. They raised a lot of potatoes and other things too. They would sell the produce to buy what they needed. They sold wheat and they made flour right here in Walsenburg and brought it home. They didn't buy anything. Some people even made shoes and sandals from cowhides. As for money, there was none.
Filomena: Some used to go to Wyoming to sheer sheep as they do now.
Alfredo: Yes, they used to go to Wyoming to sheer sheep. There was money there. This place was poor in money but not in other things. There was plenty of water but they didn't have machinery. They did everything with horses and mules.
Lucia: How did they get these lands?
Alfredo: Well it's as I told you, people came from other places and took the land I believe and then registered them.
Filomena: They homesteaded them.
Alfredo: They took the land and homesteaded it since it was free. I am told that the land was wild like a jungle. They made it into ranches by dint of work (by hand).
Lucia: They didn't do business with banks then did they?
Alfredo: Well I can't tell what people who came in at that time did (about banks) but by the time I was old enough to understand, I know the old people dealt a little with banks. They loaned them money but very little as land wasn't worth much. They said that the ranches were worth only ten cents on the acre.
Lucia: And was that all they loaned them?
Alfredo: Well it depended, oh from twenty, thirty or maybe fifty dollars. And perhaps some one hundred dollars, but no more than that because they couldn't pay more. The people here were poor. They did have sheep.
Lucia: But people had sheep didn't they?
Alfredo: Yes there were sheep.
Lucia: And you, when did you start with sheep?
Alfredo: We started out with sheep and that was our school. I never went to school. She went but I didn't. I would stay with my daddy in the mountains watching the sheep and I didn't go to school. I can't even sign my name and I can't read or write. I am an uneducated lawyer. I have a loose tongue everyone says. And they ask me, “How do you know so much? How do you know?” I didn't tell him but I learned by listening to the news people bring me and I take from that what I want.
Lucia: And you did go to school.
Filomena: Yes but only to grade school. You see, my mother was very sick and we could never go to school. Some of us would go to school one day and the others the next because someone had to stay with her.
Lucia: When you had the ranch, did you have only sheep or did you have any other stock?
Alfredo: No, we also had hogs and some cows but mostly sheep. My father even had 1000 sheep at one time.
Lucia: How many more acres did you need to feed the sheep instead of calves?
Alfredo: All the land one wanted. All the land outside of the river bottom belonged to the government except the little ranches. Anyone could go all over the government land and no one bothered a person. So we pastured the sheep there.
Filomena: I think that if it hadn't been like, that people could not have had sheep.
Alfredo: Not now that the government is renting it. There's no chance, especially for poor people. Do you know who has come in now— the Texans!
Lucia: When did the Texans start coming in?
Filomena: About six years ago.
Alfredo: Oh no, longer ago than that. Oh no, that man White came about 20 years ago. So the Texans have been here about 20 years. And they came in taking over everything. They offered money everywhere.
Filomena: And the hippies are doing the same. They are buying a lot of land.
Alfredo: You see, these people at once said that this land belongs to the government and they rented so much and then fenced it. They started to limit the people. But as I always say, what do I want with more land. I already have my home and my little ranch.
Lucia: What was I going to ask? Oh yes, when did people who were not of our race start coming in?
Alfredo: The Texans came in but I don't know what year they came but they have been here a long time.
Lucia: Were they the first to come in?
Alfredo: Yes, the Texans came in when the people forgot their land (left their land) and then came the hippies.
Lucia: Tell me something about your life.
Alfredo: All I've done is work and work and watch sheep. As I've told you, I didn't go to school, I just took care of sheep. As for the women, well the girls helped their mother, and with other tasks around the ranch, planting a garden and so on. Then when these girls married their husbands started working for the Germans for a salary. One of the girls worked 30 or 40 years at the 3M ranch helping the lady of the house.
Lucia: When did the owners of the 3M ranch come in?
Alfredo: When did they come in you mean?
Lucia: Did they come before you or after?
Alfredo: Oh I don't know when old man Meyer came. He was already here. I think he came from the Old Country. I think he took that land uncultivated. There was a lot of sagebrush but he cleared it up and made some little ranches. That old man used to bring cattle from Mexico, as many as three or six thousand head. What was that old Meyer's name?
Alfredo: John Meyer. Well it was that old man Meyer who started there.
Lucia: Was he a German?
Alfredo: Yes, he came from the Old Country. He hardly could speak English. He had a hotel at Westcliff and he hardly knew anything and the way he talked, you could tell he was from another country. His sons were Gus, Fritz, John, Henry the veterinary, and what was the other ones name, Albert. He has his family there. He had another boy there but I didn't know him—he wouldn't eat breakfast but would put on his hat, take an ax and would go to the hills.
Lucia: And when you had celebrations such as St James and St Isador, did people come from elsewhere or just from here? Did this Mr. Meyer come too?
Alfredo: No he didn't come. I don't know what was the matter with those people. It seems they did nothing but work. There was a church here that they attended but I think the old man perhaps didn't.
Filomena: At that place called Chama, there were many Mexican people. Also at Turkey Creek.
Alfredo: That was another area, Malachite. As I told you before, there lived about 200 persons.
Lucia: And why did they leave?
Alfredo: They died of old age. And the family that was left went away. And now the people who went to Springs and Pueblo have died. They were all about my dad's and mamas age, so these people died of old age.
Filomena: But those ways have changed many peoples opinions, saying that was all a lie.
Alfredo: No one can tell me different. I saw a little of what was happening and I remember. I remember the Penitentes, I know what was in abundance in those years and everything was good here. People were devout Catholics. They believed in God, now they don't. People don't know what to believe. The Jehovahs are very wise but don't you believe them.
Lucia: So only the people celebrated these things. Did the Texans attend?
Alfredo: No, I believe only the people and no one bothered them. There were a lot of people there, all united helping each other. This neighbor helped this one and this one helped that one to harvest the crops. All these people helped each other.
Lucia: Very nice wasn't it?
Alfredo: Yes it was very nice but not now. All that is finished. It's a long time since that ended. All these people harvested this ranch and this one helped the others. They would bring thrashing machines and the whole community helped each other.
Filomena: Now people don't help each other.
Alfredo: No not now. If one wants a little of whatever he needs, he goes to the store and they have it already measured out. You know that you go to buy beans and you bring it in a little bag.
Lucia: Did you go often to Walsenburg in those days or didn't you go hardly at all?
Alfredo: In the fall only, to take wheat to grind into flour.
Lucia: Oh so only once a year?
Alfredo: Yes once a year and on horseback.
Lucia: How long did it take you?
Alfredo: Well they would leave here in the morning and some if they didn't go right into town, would sleep here in El Badito. There was a stable there and there were some adobe houses with stoves. They belonged to everyone. They cooked there and as they used to say, we are taking a break. Next day as early as they wished they left and arrived down town. There was another stable there. They put their horses there, fed them and would go do their business and purchased what they needed. From there they reached home with their wagons loaded with provisions for the winter.
Lucia: So it took quite a while to go there?
Alfredo: I think it took two days, not counting the time they stayed in town. Only the trip.
Lucia: What about your family? Are your children with you or did they already leave?
Alfredo: Well, I don't have a family. I married a women who had a family. She has two.
Filomena: A boy and a girl.
Lucia: Do they live here?
Filomena: They live in Colorado Springs. The girl works in the college and the boy on the highway.
Lucia: Were there many curanderas (folk healers) around here?
Alfredo: What do you mean?
Lucia: Women who made and used herbs to treat the sick.
Alfredo: Yes they made medicines from herbs around here. They didn't get any from doctors. There were some salesmen who came around like the Raleigh man selling medicines sometimes. There was camphor and one red medicine called Red Linament. Do you know what people bought more of? That for horses for the colic. But they picked and used herbs most.
Lucia: Did they take more care of the horses?
Alfredo: Well horses were our life. There were no tractors or anything else. The Medicas made medicines of herbs, only herbs.
Lucia: And were there various Medicas here?
Alfredo: Yes there were several and they cured all the family.
Filomena: And do you know medicines made of these herbs are better than the ones the doctors sell. I have been going to one doctor for about 20 years and they don't know what sicknesses I have.
Alfredo: Do you know that they don't know. People didn't use vaccines even for animals or anything. And the meat was so good that it didn't make people sick or anything. You could see very old people working as hard as if they were young. They had good health. I'm telling you they walked barefooted everywhere on the hills. I think they were half Indian. People said that this was Indian territory here. All of Black Mountain and Green Horn. They call it Green Horn because there was an Indian chief here called Green Horn.
Filomena: They say the Indians were around here for many years.
Alfredo: Well maybe when those people were here. I don't think there were any because the Indians were at war. I don't know how long ago but there were battles. There are signs that the Indians were here. One time I and this Bruce Tirey and his son were driving cattle in yellow stone and I found a knife made of rock. A long big knife that I have at home. It is like a saw they used to skin an animal. It was made by the hand of an Indian. I have seen arrows. Do you know what an arrow is? Those are signs that Indians were here.
Filomena: Children playing on the hill find many of them.
Alfredo: Do you remember that there were many around the sand dunes. There were also some, what are those things the Indians used called? Oh yes, metates. We would see all those things but didn't pay attention and we left them there. There was an Indian camp on the other side of El Mosca. An old man whose name was Juan Abila said they saw some there.
Lucia: You didn't see any Indians here yourselves?
Alfredo: Oh no. That was a long time ago. More than a hundred years ago. That road that goes by there was an Indian passage, not a road, only a path.
Filomena: My father's relatives raised a little Indian girl. I did know her.
Alfredo: That little old lady was certainly good at making tortillas in that carnal. She made beautiful raised tortillas. She didn't use baking powder but soda to make them. The tortillas were a little yellow but oh how delicious! I was in Wyoming near the border of Montana where I worked with some Basques. They said that baking powder is very bad for the blood. They don't use either soda or baking powder. They make sour dough bread. They make the yeast from potatoes and I don't remember what else they put in the dough but they put in a little salt because they said salt is bad for the heart. Those people took good care of themselves. Do you know what they used a lot of? Garlic which they said was good for the blood, garlic and onions. That's what they said. They also said that baking power and the other things people use are poison.
Lucia: Who were those people?
Alfredo: Those were Basques. They are from that part of Spain and France.
Lucia: What were their names?
Alfredo: I worked for several. One was Juan Taverna, another Jim Shosky and another they called Espanda. My brother worked for him. There was a Pedro Acosta, Juan, Jim, Espanda and Pedro were the only ones we knew. They were French Basques who left Spain and came to Wyoming. Very handsome men they were!
Lucia: Did they just come through that way?
Alfredo: No. They came to herd sheep. These Basques came on contract to herd sheep. They were sent for and some worked some eight, some ten years and some five years and they were paid with sheep. They were smart. These men took over the desert land (as they did here) and like their employer Wyatt. They went with them with their share of the sheep instead of money. The owners paid them with sheep, though only sheep that were seven or eight years old but they didn't mind. They told us that was the way they had acquired sheep themselves.
Lucia: And did you work for them?
Alfredo: Yes we worked only for them since they were very rich already. They told us the story of how they had done this but we worked only for them. In fact, I had not gone looking for work as a sheepherder. I was looking for a chance to herd cattle.
Lucia: Why did you look for work outside your ranches and why did people look for and get work away from their ranches?
Alfredo: Well it is possible that they took jobs from people who had money to earn a few cents to buy clothes and shoes, especially pants because they didn't need to buy food too often. You know, I often bought a pair of good work pants called levis for a dollar and a half but that was a very long time ago. They used to say that Indians used to come through here. There was a path called Wagon Train, the one that goes through Las Amarillas, Yellow Stone to the San Luis Valley. They said one group of them went that way and another through El Mosca and went to New Mexico. I don't suppose that the very old Indians are there now but they did go to Taos.
Filomena: This little old Italian who lives here seems to know many of these stories.
Alfredo: My father used to say that Indians used to go through here. That is where the little Indian girl, she told you lived with us, was taken. They either found her or took her away. They called these Indians they took “captives”, you see because as they were crossing the valley, people took them from the Indians. There was another that they called Juan Antonio, that old man. They raised him too but he became deaf. Who knows if they didn't beat him a lot, the poor boy.
Filomena: I believe if the young people who lived here had learned to read in Spanish, they would have a lot of history to tell but we can't read it. I myself can't read Spanish.
Alfredo: I can't read in English or Spanish but I say I can beat them. The young people don't care. Well poor us. We were going around trying to look for a dollar to buy something, a nice pair of pants to go to the dance, to dance a little. You see, we didn't earn but a dollar a day and yet there are still people here who work for fifty cents. I worked many years for only one dollar and I worked hard all day, all day and even part of the night. They didn't pay anything. They say now that times are hard, well it may be but at least people earn something. It is true that money isn't worth much. What ruined the country is that they lowered the value of the money, I don't know why. They gave it for things that are not worth the money. You take a little of your money to the store and you don't buy much with it and then they rob you. In that store over there they rob you. It's the fault of the millionaires. The millionaires took everything over, they took the banks, the stores, the gasoline and the oil. One can't buy anything in one's favor, all is against us. Now you can't drive your car because you have to have a license to drive and you must have a sticker, you have to have a drivers test certificate and all that.
Lucia: In those days they didn't have all these rules did they?
Alfredo: There were no cars. Then those model T cars started to come in. These were changed to the model A, which was a little better car. Then the first car that came in after this was the Chevrolet but there were other cars, one that was called a ______and another called a Chrysler and so on. But the car that rolled around here was the model T.
Lucia: Who brought it here?
Alfredo: I don't know how those cars came in. I think it was the Chrysler Company who brought them in. Do you know Hughey? He was one of the first to sell cars. He sold Chryslers and model T's too. He can tell you. He lives in Walsen and had garages there in Walsen. Do you know Willie who is working for Santi? Well he used to work for Hughey.
Lucia: Was there a newspaper, like a daily or so?
Alfredo: Well I don't think so or I would have heard about it.
Filomena: My father-in-law used to receive a newspaper called La Prenza. I believe it came from Mexico.
END OF INTERVIEW
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